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I have 5 new bolts and the width of the roller slot front to back is .319 to .3195
And the length from the bolt Face to the slot is .595 to .596.
All of these as compared to the above measurement of 15mm would equal an increased gap [just guessing here!] of approx .005"

That being 15mm = .59055" and all having a length of 1.8349" to 1.8355"

Now I'm getting a Head Pain! Got to go out and get some Beer on this one!

gw11
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 · (Edited)
With the new bolt on the old carrier, I get the correct bolt gap. I think from what you mentioned before is the stop for the cocking handle is set too far to the rear. I'm thinking a dremel to the face of it would give it more clearance and give me a better lockup with the new bolt carrier and give me an accurate bolt gap. The question at this point is how do I get the cocking handle out to do check on it?

Jim
 

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I doubt that your Cocking Handle Stop Pin is wrong. As long as your Cocking Handle Lays down against the Cocking Tube and the pin holds the Handle from going rearward, it's fine.
The movement I was mentioning in past posts is only to find if there is a space at the Support and Carrier.
If your Carrier Forward tube contacts the Handle Support you will need to remove material from the front of the Carrier Tube. Don't Taper the tube! You need to use a Flat File "Flat" against the end of the Tube and kept square. You want to remove Length from either of the two parts mentioned.

As a hint, if the Carrier is contacting the Support. Remove .015" at a time, [or at least the first time] but check often. And remember you will want a Total Gap of no more that .015" [some people say .020"

If you do decide to remove the Handle in between adjustments, don't install the spring until your done.

Remember the Pin Holes do not line up so the pin cannot slide out.

You remove the Cocking Handle by starting the pin with a full size punch from the bottom, the change over to a smaller 1/8th" or so punch to allow the pin to align with the exiting hole. Keep the punch in the hole when the pin is out, the [Holding the Handle in the down position] remove the punch and slide the handle forward while also lifting in an attempt to get the lower leg out first and keeping the spring on top [The spring will slide out of it's groove in the top of the Support toward the front]

If you let everything fly after removing the pin you may mess up the spring.

In the reverse, set the spring in the Handle groove and position the Support into the slot so you can see the spring slot. Press the Handle/spring down and to the rear until you can see the hole line up. then insert the small punch from the bottom and let the blood flow back into your fingers! If you happen to set the small punch from the top, just switch to the bottom when you are ready to insert the Handle Pin. If the pin has serrations around it, try to line up with the old grooves. Just remember to check alignment of the Pin and the next hole before hammering it. The pin needs to be in the center of the tube when you are done.

Hope this made sense!

gw11
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Here's something interesting.

I busted out the dial calipers I use for reloading. I took each of the bolt heads and pushed a new locking piece in and measured the spread of the rollers.

Old Bolt Head with +2 rollers and new LP: 1.156"
Old Bolt Head with +2 rollers and old LP: 1.148
New Bolt head with new LP: 1.164"
New Bolt Head with old LP: 1.152"

The hole where the rollers come out are .03" larger in the old bolt head than the new one. This apparently allows a lot of play in how the rollers fit into the trunion. Enough to produce no bolt gap. When I installed the new locking piece and new bolt head on the old carrier, I get a .015" gap, which gets it in spec. I think I'll just use the new bolt head and get a separate new bolt head this week to keep with the new carrier assembly. I'll deal with the new carrier when I have to. Thanks George!

Jim
 

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That's why I asked you to measure the bolt a few posts back.

While your bolt may be worn out, your test has no value. Your Rollers are only contacting the recess on the Roller/hitting the Pin that holds them in on the Roller Holder.

If Both Bolts are the same length, the dimension that is important is the length from the Bolt Face to the Inner edge of the Roller Slot. This is what dictates the stickout of the Roller and the positioning of the Bolt Body which changes the Bolt gap. When Locked in the Trunion, only the Front surface of the Slot contacts the Roller.

Jim when the Locking Piece [which is directly attached to the Carrier] comes forward, it contacts the inner rear of the Roller, which pushes the roller against the Forward edge of the Roller slot, which in turn pushes the bolt forward against the round in the chamber, or the Barrel Breach Face. This action then forces the Roller outward against the Trunion wall.
So if the forward edge of the roller slot is worn, the LP comes forward/with the Carrier and decreasing Bolt Gap.

George
 

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Ok one last thing!

I believe you may be getting tired of messing with your Gun. But as a good point, if you knew all this info before you started, you would have been done three week's ago!:D

So the one last comment.
If you decide to not remove the Cocking Handle and stay with the Old Carrier which has been chamfered for an unknown reason and if the Carrier is stopping in different positions every time it cycles, from being too long/Bent/or just plain Century Built, you may help ruin your new bolt/Rollers and or the Trunion.
Also if your Cocking Handle and Support are removed, you can install the new Bolt/Carrier assembly with the Grip Housing installed and pinned. Then just shove the Bolt/Carrier forward till it is locked and pull the trigger and check the "Actual" Bolt Gap! [to open the action, just place a flat screw driver at the Bolt Gap and hit the it with your hand -twist the screw driver and the action will open.

Now I'm done!!!!

George
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
George,

The distance from the Bolt Face to the Inner edge of the Roller Slot

Old Bolt: 0.920"
New Bolt: 0.950"

That's a pretty big difference in terms of rifle actions. The picture that you posted does not show that measurement, which is why I didn't do it earlier. Plus I don't have a metric caliper, which I will be getting soon.

So I'm using the new bolt head and locking piece, and it's working. With all the info on here, maybe the mods could sticky this one? I think there's a lot of useful info on this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Everything else is straight on the rifle, including the carrier. I still haven't pulled the cocking handle/support, as I can't figure out how to do that. Seriously, you've been a massive help. If I knew this earlier, you're right, this would have been done 3 weeks ago! I hope others can learn from this as well.

Jim
 

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Just Popped a Cold one! And my mind opened up again!


Your dimensions on the bolt slot helps a lot [[.592" on the old one.
.598" on the new one ]] Without a lot of thought that .006" is probably .009" to .010" or so in Bolt Gap gain .



Next my brain fart!

Going back to your other thread, you said.

[[One other question, it seems that if I do the slap pull measure with the muzzle up, I get a 0.008" gap, but if I do the same thing with the muzzle down, the gap goes below 0.004". It obviously made a difference in my rifle, but is it supposed to?]]

This tells me again that there is a question about the Cocking Handle Support or the Condition of the Carrier [bent or what ever].
If the Gap was changing, this means something is in the way!

Jim
If you remove the handle this will work better, but anyway Remove the Stock assembly, shine a light down the Cocking Tube/ from the front. Remove the Bolt and place the Carrier in the Receiver. With the magwell facing down, slowly slide the carrier forward while noticing it the Carrier tube starts and ends in the Middle of the Cocking Tube. Try this again by pushing the Carrier to the side-left and right and Check the alignment.

Next check your Receiver Rails at their innermost surface [this is the surface that alignes the Bolt to the Trunion] Is the inner surface "Flush" with the inner Surface of the Trunion?

With the Bolt attached to the Carrier and you slowly slide the assembly forward, does the Bolt twist/rotate or does the Carrier Lift or Twist as the Bolt enters the trunion?


George
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
George,

Since I put the new bolt head and locking piece in, this is no longer true. I'm getting consistent .018" gap now, no matter how I hold it.

However, I did do the carrier check, and I felt a slight "bump" where the weld is no matter which way I held the rifle. Also, the assembly is tight all the way through the receiver.

Jim
 

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If you mean inside the Cocking tube, there is Weld burn through.

You need to clean that out!

Get your self a 1/4 " or so diameter Wood Dowel and wrap a length of Sand Paper of 320 grit or so around the end of the dowel until it is just under the ID dimension of the cocking Tube. Attach it to a Hand Drill and simply remove a short piece of the strip when dull. Be careful to only remove the High Spot of the burn through.

George
 

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I edited my post #23 to correct my mistake. As far as adjusting the Cocking Handle Support/ Carrier Tube gap.

I purchased and received today a New Cetme Cocking Handle Support to check which Item needed to be shortened or lengthened to obtain a .005 to .015" Gap at the Cocking Handle Support/Carrier Front Tube. [It's been 5 or so years since I had a Cetme in my hands, so I forgot a little].
Well anyway, if you need to adjust for this Gap you need to add or remove material from the front of the Carrier Tube as the Tube contacts the inside face of the Cocking Handle Support.

Also if a person was sure of how much to remove, he could drill out the Cocking handle support with an Endmill to ensure that the correction is done leaving the cut with "square face and square corners" inside the Support.

Anyone need a New Cetme Cocking Handle Support?


Thanks
gw11
 
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