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Silver Bullet Member
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I know the principle Mauser rifle type used during the Spanish Civil War (SCW) was the Model 1893 and the Model 1916 both of which were chambered for the 7 x 57 mm round. However, I am interested to know whether the Mauser Karbiner 98 rifle also was used and, if so, by whom and how extensively?

I have seen Spanish K98 rifles with the crest of Francisco Franco's Air Force on the receiver top. These rifles have no date of manufacture or proofed parts (i.e., Weimar or Nazi Eagles) suggesting that they were not assembled from parts sent to Spain by Germany. I suspect they were wholly manufactured and assembled in Spain.

What are your thoughts on this point.

Thanks for the education.

Tim
 

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They used everything.Gew 98 tubed to 7mm,Cz VZ-24,Paraguay 1927,Mexcian long rifles,Mauser standard Modell,Kar 98a.I have not seen or read of use of the Gew.88.They also used French Berthier Rifles that may have been sent from Poland.Poland got these from The Haller army when they returned to Poland at the end of WW1.I think the P-14 Enfield in 303 and 8mm were used there also.I have seen pictures of guys with these rifles.There is a book called "Arms for Spain" or something like that.I have not read it but I have seen guys refer to it in posts before.
 

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The Air Force Mausers (Model 1944) were post-SCW. A lot of the design of the Model 44 Air Force was based on the Polish K98az. Many German parts were used in the assembly of the M44 rifles; up until at least mid way in their production the rear site bases have German codes. The higher serial number rifles appear to be entirely Spanish made.

Getting back to Mausers used in the SCW - sanitized Polish K98az rifles, Czech VZ24 rifles, German 98k rifles - just to name a few. Also keep in mind Mosin Nagants, US Springfields and British Enfields were used. The Nationalist side (being based in the Spanish Army) used the normal inventory of Spanish 7mm Mausers, plus being allied with Germany and Italy, they used a lot of German 8mm Mausers, plus Italian volunteer forces brought their grab bag of Carcanos, etc. The Republicans - they had a grab-bag of everything they could get! 7mm Mausers, 8mm Mausers, Enfields, Springfields, Mosin Nagants, shotguns, pitchforks, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The Air Force Mausers (Model 1944) were post-SCW. A lot of the design of the Model 44 Air Force was based on the Polish K98az. Many German parts were used in the assembly of the M44 rifles; up until at least mid way in their production the rear site bases have German codes. The higher serial number rifles appear to be entirely Spanish made.
Ah, I figured as much. I had hoped I came across an 8 mm Mauser with SCW provenance, but no such luck.

Tim
 

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Ah, I figured as much. I had hoped I came across an 8 mm Mauser with SCW provenance, but no such luck.

Tim
I have heard that these were made from the Polish Mausers sent to Spain during the war and had the Recv. scrubbed and restamped later, like some of the Turk and Yugo Mausers.
 

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Ah, I figured as much. I had hoped I came across an 8 mm Mauser with SCW provenance, but no such luck.

Tim
Just keep looking. I picked up a WZ 29 with the MP8 marking several years ago, before I
even knew what it meant, just didn't have a Polish Mauser. Then in Feb. 2006, along comes
a Gew 98 with the later S/42 marked rear sight MP8 on buttstock, I didn't have one of those so it came home
with me. Then I learned about MP8 marking denoting Spanish ownership.
Last year I discovered on line gunbuying, first Gunbroker then here, bought a few on Gunbroker, and rather more here as several members well know....
Then came my most recent MP8 Mauser, A VZ 24, MP 8 marked buttstock showed up here .
I thought about it for a while, at least several seconds, and posted "I'll take it."
I've found these, you could do as well, while maybe not really common, they are around.
The first two were found within 20 miles of home.
 

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Mausers in SCW

In the 1960s, Sam Cummings(Interarms) Bought out the entire Spansh Government's SCW Inventory, and a lot of Post SCW Rifles as well.
Aside from the native M93 and M1916 etc (Both 7mm and the later 7,62 chmabering, A lot of WW I gew98s, Kar98a, Polish Wz29 etc.etc were also acquired from Spain. The "Gew98 are actually the 1934-35 Upgrade (Gew98M) with flat bed rear sights, rather then Lange sights. Thses were left by the German "Condor Legion" which served in Spain 1937-38.

The Republicans (Reds) also acquired "scrubbed" Wz29s from Poland, CZ24s from the Czechs, and assorted other WW I Mausers.

Immediately after the end of the SCW (1939) franco's govt set about putting some oreder into the massive amount of rifles etc. in its possession.

Items only fit for scrap were either melted down or dumped in the Mediterranean; a Lot of the Longer (G98) type rifles were stripped down, and several "short run" "Parts" rifles were assembled, whilost setting up full production facilities to make a Kar98k clone, the M43.

These short runs were for the Navy and Airforce, and utilised a lot of "parts" some of which still carry WW I, 1934-35, and Polish marks on them. The Airforce M44 looks much like the Polish Wz29, down to stock sling arrangements, front sight ears, etc. In M44s , one finds both Gew and Kar98a trigger guards and rear sights.

As production progressed, the number of parts from former rifles diminished, and new made parts were being used by the early 1950s.
The M43 rifles seems to be all new production from the beginning, although some Older receivers were used to set up production in 1943-44.

Rifles which escaped the 1940s and 1950s rebuilding drives, will usually be in quite "ratty" condition, with a Spanish MP-8 Inventory mark on the Butt, and this mark is found on all the SCW riufles , not just Mausers.

Spain even manufactutred 7,62x54R and other calibres of ammo in short runs, to have some for training and reserve purposes for the various calibre rifles it had accumulated during the SCW. The Most common "Non Spanish" calibres were .303 ("7,7mm")--also used in aircraft guns, and 7,62 Russian.

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Balistics.
 

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Spanish rifles

Maybe I'm being naive, but I wonder why a lot of "contributions/sales" rifles to that particular conflict had to be scrubbed? I guess various arms manufacturers/suppliers didn't necessarily want to be out in open as to what side they were on? Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Maybe I'm being naive, but I wonder why a lot of "contributions/sales" rifles to that particular conflict had to be scrubbed? I guess various arms manufacturers/suppliers didn't necessarily want to be out in open as to what side they were on? Jim
Jim,

Your question is not at all naive. Your answer is essentially correct in that a Non-Intervention Treaty was in place and so most countries did not want to appear to overtly break the treaty. However, flouting the traety is precisely what many countries, with few exceptions, did.

Tim
 
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