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Peter in CA
Gunboards Super Premium Member

318 Posts
Posted - 09/22/2005 : 11:01:57 PM
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Greetings,
I thought that I had seen a thread about letters like E N on an old Mauser, but I cannot find it. So I hope I am not repeating old news.
I brought home a Mauser Model 1871 made by OEWG today, and along with the markings that I can identify with Ball's Mauser book, the rifle has "EN" on the top barrel knox, right next to the receiver and "E N" stamped into the right buttstock. The left buttstock has a large 2 over 72 stamped into it. There are no unit markings on the buttplate.

Can someone identify what this means? Thanks in advance for any help.

Peter in CA

Viclav
Gunboards Member

USA
36 Posts
Posted - 09/23/2005 : 2:33:42 PM
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Peter,
I think the E N (Ejercito Nacional) is an Argentine military property mark... perhaps more familiar when seen on rolling block rifles. There's a picture of Argentinian troops on Keith Doyon's website. Most have rolling blocks, but some appear to have '71 Mausers.

http://www.militaryrifles.com/Argentina/ArgentHistInfo.htm

Victor

Peter in CA
Gunboards Super Premium Member

318 Posts
Posted - 09/23/2005 : 3:28:41 PM
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clarebda
Gunboards Member

United Kingdom
10 Posts
Posted - 09/28/2005 : 2:47:48 PM
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I have just bought a 1867 Werndl infantry rifle with EN on the knox form ,did Argentina have Werndls? does anyone have any information ?
This particular rifle appears to have a non standard chamber being neither 11.15 x 58r or the earlier 11.15 x 42r allthough the bore and groove dimensions are correct at .431 and .446


Krag
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

3553 Posts
Posted - 09/28/2005 : 3:10:49 PM
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Yes, the Argies used Werndls, Gras and Rolling Blocks. According to Argentine arms expert, Senor Eduardo Fontenla, the dimensional similarities of cartridges for this trio of rifles permitted the use of the Remington round in Werndl and Gras. The usual practice was to issue 11x58R Spanish cartridges to troops regardless of which rifle they were equipped with. One can only wonder at the levels of marksmanship?

Snr. Fontenla told me that during one of the periodic civil upheavals that rocked Argentine history, the rebellious province of Buenos Aires purchased 500 Mauser Infanterie-Gewehr M.71 rifles from Steyr. After the federal army put down the rebellion, these Mausers were reissued to loyal national guard units. Because of the unique design of the Patrone M.71's case head and rim, 11x58R Spanish ammunition could not be used with it.

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Peter in CA
Gunboards Super Premium Member

318 Posts
Posted - 09/28/2005 : 5:15:02 PM
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Krag,
So my M71 Mauser could be one of those 500. The "E N" is applied VERY neatly on the top knox form (maybe OEWG did it, it certainly looks like factory markings) and the stamping on the butt stock are neatly done. "E (some kind of emblem) N". The 2 over 72 on the right side of the stock are much bigger than the 'E ? N' on the left side.
As soon as I can get my kid to figure out the digital camera, I will try and post pictures.

Peter


Peter in CA
Gunboards Super Premium Member

318 Posts
Posted - 09/28/2005 : 8:26:41 PM
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Greetings,
In case anyone is following this thread, I went back and looked at my "EN" Model 1871 Mauser. The rifle is fully marked for the Imperial German Army, so if it was sold to Argentina, it was sold from military stocks.
The 'emblem' between the E and the N on the butt stock looks like a ball with a bar through it over a dot. It is right next to the "H" on the stock.
The "E.N." on the barrel knox is between the "H" and the receiver.
There are 5 inspection stamps on the barrel and 3 stamps on the receiver. This rifle was inspected!!

Peter


marysdad
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member

USA
808 Posts
Posted - 10/02/2005 : 11:12:14 PM
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I too have a M71 that has "E.N" stamped into the right side of the buttstock. However the rifle is Bavarian, having been produced at Amberg in 1881. There is no "E.N" marking on the knoxform. The rifle has all of the expected German proofmarks. There are no German unit markings visible, however, it looks like the tang of the buttplate may have been scrubbed to remove unit marks.

There are five small notches cut into the comb of the buttstock on the left side. This is the kind of thing that I might expect from an irregular or rebel, but not what I would expect from a soldier in the national army (his sargeant would kick his a** for carving up his piece).

Ralph

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DocAV
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

Australia
3278 Posts
Posted - 10/03/2005 : 09:45:07 AM
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The Museo de la Nacion in Buenas Aires has examples of all the BP rifles mentioned by Sr. Fontenla, all with the "EN" marking. I can confirm the "interchangeability" of .43 Spanish Remington with the other (larger) chambers...just a bit of case expansion, but who reloads in the middle of a revolutionary battle??? I use a similar technique when making Movie Blanks for similar rifles(one case fits all!)
As to the problem of the M71 Mauser Chamber, it is smaller( .515 head) than the .43Rem (.525 head); all the others are larger chambers ( .545 etc for Werndl, Gras, etc). The Shoulders are a variable matter, and the soft lead projectiles just swage to fir the available rifling.

One solution is to use .43 Mauser for All (which is what I do sometimes--Blanks only).

Regards, Doc AV
 
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