MAS 49/56 Double/full fire Help
MAS 49/56 Double/full fire Help Author Topic
skir
Gunboards Premium Member
216 Posts
Posted - 07/30/2007 : 10:52:28 PM
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Bought a MAS 49/56 a few Years ago but never got around to shooting it until this last weekend. Anyway right off the first time fired it doubled. Tried it again and doubled again and hammer rode the bolt but did not fire the chambered round. I stopped right then and put the rifle back in the case. After a great day shooting went back home to look at the MAS. Found that there is alot of up/down play in the bolt carrier and top cover. Cycling by hand with the trigger pulled the hammer will ride the bolt. Putting downward pressure on the bolt while cycling will make the hammer/sear catch and is fine. My newbee question is that it it just a worn sear not catching or is there too much play in the bolt carrier with wear. Any help or insight would be greatly welcome.
Thanks,
Skir
arado
Gunboards Super Premium Member
USA
281 Posts
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 08:39:06 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check your trigger group. Could be loose. Tighten screws...
Ike27
Gunboards Super Premium Member
USA
439 Posts
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 09:03:06 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SKIR
The 2 most likely causes are:
1) A firing pin that does not move freely or is too long
2) Over sensitive primers. I reload using CCI #34 military primers which are less sensitive.
The MAS series is prone to slamfires, so I would suspect the above before looking into the trigger/sear.
IKE
moulainville
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
211 Posts
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 10:26:37 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SKIR,
You don't emention what caliber the rifle is chambered for. The original 7.5 or rechambered for 308? Which is it? In either case here are some suggestions.
First, check the free movement of the firing pin. Clean the pin and the passage thru the bolt for dried grease or debris. If the pin is free moving, and you ARE NOT using relaods in a 308
or are using 7.5 ammo, then it is time to check the trigger group. The hammer is held by two separate sears. the rear one catchs the hammer and holds it while the trigger is pulled back.
This ocurs during the firing cycle. Upon relaeasing the trigger the hammer is released by that rear sear and is held by the forward sear. This sear only comes into play when the trigger is released. In many csaes, the rear sear is worn and allows the hammer to slip off while the trigger is depressed, as in the firing cycle. This would allow the hammer to follow the bolt forward and could cause a double tap. If this is the problem you will need to have gunship fix the sear of replace the entire trigger pack.
Most of these double taps are the fault of a "stcky" firing pin, and/or a 308 conversion
firing commercial/relaods.
Hope this helps.
Bill
skir
Gunboards Premium Member
216 Posts
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 10:39:33 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill and all,
Thanks for the replies. My MAS is in 7.5 and problem is just as Bill described, the rear sear is not catching and allowing the hammer to ride the bolt forward causing the problem. Will get the MAS to the Gunsmith to see what he can do. If in the latter case and I need to replace the trigger group, is there a source to obtain these parts?
Thanks again to all who took the time to reply.
Best,
Rick
mawkie
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
237 Posts
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 10:20:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAS 49 parts are starting to get scarce. Military Gun Supply in Texas had a decent supply of MAS 49 parts last time I dealt with them ('bout a year ago). They have a store up on Ebay. I'd email 'em and see if they have what you need.
skir
Gunboards Premium Member
216 Posts
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 10:51:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mawkie,
Thanks for the heads up.
Best,
Rick
moulainville
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
211 Posts
Posted - 08/01/2007 : 2:10:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick,
I have a couple of complete trigger packs, if it comes to that.
Send me a PM if you need one.
Bill
moulainville
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
211 Posts
Posted - 08/01/2007 : 3:20:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick,
I have a couple of complete trigger packs, if it comes to that.
Send me a PM if you need one.
Bill
kelt
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
France
2315 Posts
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 08:12:54 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by skir
Bill and all,
Thanks for the replies. My MAS is in 7.5 and problem is just as Bill described, the rear sear is not catching and allowing the hammer to ride the bolt forward causing the problem. Will get the MAS to the Gunsmith to see what he can do. If in the latter case and I need to replace the trigger group, is there a source to obtain these parts?
Thanks again to all who took the time to reply.
Best,
Rick
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the rear sear (mentonnet) is not locking the hammer, it's either due to an excessive wear of the contact area on the hammer and/or on the sear or most likely to a poor vertical adjustment of the trigger assembly to the receiver/stock.
In your case before you send your rifle to a gunsmith or buy a replacement trigger assy, you can check if your problem can be solved by adjusting the trigger assembly.
The MAS 44, 49 & 49-56 are very sensitive that way, the acceptable adjustment tolerances are tight and the hammer when locked by the rear sear must protrude above the floor of the receiver from 0.8mm to 1.0mm, too low it's not caught by the rear sear, too high it's interfering with the bolt assembly travel.
Download Attachment:
107.96 KB
The vertical adjustment can be carried out by reducing the thickness of the item 6 (ecrou de fourrure) thus increasing the hammer protrusion.
Remember that the measurement is carried out with the hammer locked by the rear sear while the trigger is depressed.
To access the item 6 you need only to take out the trigger assy by removing the screw (vis de pontet) at the back of the trigger guard.
If your problem is excessive wear, note that a remplacement trigger assembly will need to be checked for vertical position as well.
Here are the links to a few topics discussing the ailments of the MAS semi autos:
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=228560
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=122520
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=121244
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=118013
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=75537
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29376
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18908
kelt
skir
Gunboards Premium Member
216 Posts
Posted - 07/30/2007 : 10:52:28 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bought a MAS 49/56 a few Years ago but never got around to shooting it until this last weekend. Anyway right off the first time fired it doubled. Tried it again and doubled again and hammer rode the bolt but did not fire the chambered round. I stopped right then and put the rifle back in the case. After a great day shooting went back home to look at the MAS. Found that there is alot of up/down play in the bolt carrier and top cover. Cycling by hand with the trigger pulled the hammer will ride the bolt. Putting downward pressure on the bolt while cycling will make the hammer/sear catch and is fine. My newbee question is that it it just a worn sear not catching or is there too much play in the bolt carrier with wear. Any help or insight would be greatly welcome.
Thanks,
Skir
arado
Gunboards Super Premium Member
USA
281 Posts
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 08:39:06 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check your trigger group. Could be loose. Tighten screws...
Ike27
Gunboards Super Premium Member
USA
439 Posts
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 09:03:06 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SKIR
The 2 most likely causes are:
1) A firing pin that does not move freely or is too long
2) Over sensitive primers. I reload using CCI #34 military primers which are less sensitive.
The MAS series is prone to slamfires, so I would suspect the above before looking into the trigger/sear.
IKE
moulainville
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
211 Posts
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 10:26:37 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SKIR,
You don't emention what caliber the rifle is chambered for. The original 7.5 or rechambered for 308? Which is it? In either case here are some suggestions.
First, check the free movement of the firing pin. Clean the pin and the passage thru the bolt for dried grease or debris. If the pin is free moving, and you ARE NOT using relaods in a 308
or are using 7.5 ammo, then it is time to check the trigger group. The hammer is held by two separate sears. the rear one catchs the hammer and holds it while the trigger is pulled back.
This ocurs during the firing cycle. Upon relaeasing the trigger the hammer is released by that rear sear and is held by the forward sear. This sear only comes into play when the trigger is released. In many csaes, the rear sear is worn and allows the hammer to slip off while the trigger is depressed, as in the firing cycle. This would allow the hammer to follow the bolt forward and could cause a double tap. If this is the problem you will need to have gunship fix the sear of replace the entire trigger pack.
Most of these double taps are the fault of a "stcky" firing pin, and/or a 308 conversion
firing commercial/relaods.
Hope this helps.
Bill
skir
Gunboards Premium Member
216 Posts
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 10:39:33 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill and all,
Thanks for the replies. My MAS is in 7.5 and problem is just as Bill described, the rear sear is not catching and allowing the hammer to ride the bolt forward causing the problem. Will get the MAS to the Gunsmith to see what he can do. If in the latter case and I need to replace the trigger group, is there a source to obtain these parts?
Thanks again to all who took the time to reply.
Best,
Rick
mawkie
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
237 Posts
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 10:20:05 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAS 49 parts are starting to get scarce. Military Gun Supply in Texas had a decent supply of MAS 49 parts last time I dealt with them ('bout a year ago). They have a store up on Ebay. I'd email 'em and see if they have what you need.
skir
Gunboards Premium Member
216 Posts
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 10:51:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mawkie,
Thanks for the heads up.
Best,
Rick
moulainville
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
211 Posts
Posted - 08/01/2007 : 2:10:07 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick,
I have a couple of complete trigger packs, if it comes to that.
Send me a PM if you need one.
Bill
moulainville
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
211 Posts
Posted - 08/01/2007 : 3:20:24 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rick,
I have a couple of complete trigger packs, if it comes to that.
Send me a PM if you need one.
Bill
kelt
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
France
2315 Posts
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 08:12:54 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by skir
Bill and all,
Thanks for the replies. My MAS is in 7.5 and problem is just as Bill described, the rear sear is not catching and allowing the hammer to ride the bolt forward causing the problem. Will get the MAS to the Gunsmith to see what he can do. If in the latter case and I need to replace the trigger group, is there a source to obtain these parts?
Thanks again to all who took the time to reply.
Best,
Rick
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the rear sear (mentonnet) is not locking the hammer, it's either due to an excessive wear of the contact area on the hammer and/or on the sear or most likely to a poor vertical adjustment of the trigger assembly to the receiver/stock.
In your case before you send your rifle to a gunsmith or buy a replacement trigger assy, you can check if your problem can be solved by adjusting the trigger assembly.
The MAS 44, 49 & 49-56 are very sensitive that way, the acceptable adjustment tolerances are tight and the hammer when locked by the rear sear must protrude above the floor of the receiver from 0.8mm to 1.0mm, too low it's not caught by the rear sear, too high it's interfering with the bolt assembly travel.
Download Attachment:
107.96 KB
The vertical adjustment can be carried out by reducing the thickness of the item 6 (ecrou de fourrure) thus increasing the hammer protrusion.
Remember that the measurement is carried out with the hammer locked by the rear sear while the trigger is depressed.
To access the item 6 you need only to take out the trigger assy by removing the screw (vis de pontet) at the back of the trigger guard.
If your problem is excessive wear, note that a remplacement trigger assembly will need to be checked for vertical position as well.
Here are the links to a few topics discussing the ailments of the MAS semi autos:
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=228560
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=122520
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=121244
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=118013
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=75537
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29376
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18908
kelt
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