Joined
·
286 Posts
Since the time is runnig out and not seeing anything about bringing the stickies I am bringing this one.
Moderators,
If you think that it is inapropriate and if something is in the work, please delety
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 04:05:02 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have an opportunity to retrieve some of the lost history of the MAS 36. By comparative listing of known artifacts, the anecdotal tales which accompany these rifles may be confirmed or rejected, and fresh inquiries and debates enjoined. The monthly production rates will reflect upon the rush to war and provide a glimpse of France's industrial society, from the mid 1930s to the spring of 1940.
Primarily this will be a compendium of butt stock serial numbers, and the month and year exhibited within the "MA" cartouche. But beyond this, the incorporation of committed changes may be dated, sub contractors identified and tracked, lead time of barrel production established, and anomalies noted.
So feel free to include such things as the type of upper band and receiver, the manufacture's code, the acceptance proofs upon the receiver ring, the date and code of the barrel, and any other information which you feel is of note. With time, it is hoped that photographic inclusions will document various features and sub types.
The scope of this thread, I assume, will be guided by the moderators, but the content will depend upon the participation of all board members, which is your good right. I am a dilettante in this matter, and have as much to learn here as any of you. I am serving only as the scrivener, so let me thank you in advance for your contributions and edifications.
Thomas M. Giles/ Orc Mastiffs
##################################################
G 11X October 1937
G 6241 March 1938 /Type 1 band & receiver /"E" Mfg. / L M C proofs /Barrel top- Full serial number & "E" & ["G" in shield] /Bottom flat-"RG" MAS 1937
G 11803 June 1938 /Type 1 band & receiver /"E" Mfg. / L M C proofs /Barrel top-"E" & ["G" in shield] /Bottom flat-"RG" MAS 1938
G 12806 June 1938 /Type 1 band & receiver /"E" Mfg. / L M C proofs /Barrel top-"E" & ["G" in shield] /Bottom flat-"RG" MAS 1938
G 167XX September 1938
G 325XX February 1939
G 34140 Unknown / Type 1 receiver /"E" Mfg. / L M C proofs /Barrel top-"F" [no proof] /Bottom flat-"G" MAT 1937
G 347XX February 1939
G 35223 Ferruary 1939
G 386XX February 1939
G 405XX Unknown 1939 /"E" Mfg. / L M G proofs /Barrel flat-MAT 1938
G 42XXX March 1939
G 45078 April 1939
G 453XX April 1939
G 67719 July 1939 / Type 1 band & receiver /Barrel bottom flat-"C" MAT 1938
G 76328 Unknown 1939
G 98738 October 1939
H 1397X December 1939
H 17066 December 1939
H 243XX January 1940
H 29251 Unknown 1940
H 34020 January 1940 /Type 1 band & receiver / "E" Mfg./ L M G proofs /Barrel top-"E" & ["G" in circle] /Bottom flat-"AS" MAS 1939
H 38566 February 1940
H 49756 February 1940 /Type 1 band & receiver
H 62535 March 1940 /Type 1 band & receiver/ "E" Mfg./ Concentric circles / L M [no final proof] /Barrel top-"E" [no proof] /Bottom flat-"C" MAT 1939
H 637XX March 1940
H 6399X March 1940
H 74410 April 1940 / Type 2 Transitional band & Type 2 modified receiver /"E" Mfg. / L M G proofs / "LK5" marked stock /Barrel top-"E" [no proof] /Bottom flat-"A" MAT 1939
H 753XX April 1940
H 79037 April 1940
H 82477 April 1940
H 8254X April 1940
H 91525 Unknown 1940 /Barrel flat MAT 1940
H 963XX April 1940
H 96738 May 1940 / Type 1 band & receiver / "E" Mfg./ L M G proofs / Perhaps a delayed acceptance rifle, as the J 6187 would otherwise be antecedent
J 6187 April 1940
J 8254 May 1940
J 20233 June 1940
K 2502 May 1940
K 7227 June 1940 / "E" "MF" Mfg.
L 35XX June 1940
****************************************************
K 319XX October 1944 /1940 Barrel / Type 2 rear sight base w/ Type 1 sight leaf & slider
****************************************************
Mystery Sterile / Type 2 band & receiver / Type 1 rear sight /Barrel top-"E" & [encircled "C" or "G"] /Bottom barrel flat-"RG" MAS 1939 / Receiver left flat marked "MAS Mle 1936" on partially milled surface.
Mystery #320 / Type 2 upper band & receiver
####################################################
M 435XX March [year not discernable]
M 88590 July 1946
Q 306X April 1950
####################################################
MAS 36-51
F 115XX [August or October] 1953
F 600XX October 1956 /1963 barrel / Walnut stocks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - orcmastiffs on 09/10/2007 03:04:19 AM
vivelacolo
Gunboards Super Premium Member
USA
304 Posts
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 6:29:34 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally a sticky for the inventory of MAS 36
Here is my list, they are close enough to the surface so I can get to them.
A couple of those, already, are possibly on the list.
G 347xx Fevrier 1939
G 677xx Juillet 1939 1er type all matching, got it last week end.
Download Attachment:
98.71 KB
Download Attachment:
171.09 KB
Download Attachment:
195.74 KB
H 47xx stock not readable bolt plug 2nd type
H 89xx stock not readable bolt plug 2nd type
H 385xx Fevrier 1940
H 825xx Avril 1940
Mystery MAS 36 #320 bolt plug 2nd type, reinforced front band at the screw.
Post war oddities
MAS 36 LG 48 Q 224xx stock not readable forehand walnut 1st type
M 435xx mars ? could be 46.
Download Attachment:
161.21 KB
Download Attachment:
164.6 KB
As others prewar MAS 36 emerge I will post them on the list.
I believe that the first two modifications were the reinforcement at the screw of the front band and the modification of the bolt plug. The date at which it was started?
This survey will be extremely helpful, thank you.
Best regards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Olivier
The Stone Master
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
160 Posts
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 10:34:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAS 36 (formerly "mummyfied")
SER# K884XX
Bbl: 1962, G near f/sight, no undercut (this undercut is only on LG48's it seems)
Wood: standard 70's refurb, no markings, birch, new
Floorplate: not serialized. Forged (not sheet metal)
Bayonet: not serialized, crisp 90deg knurling.
Metal finish: parkerized
MAS 36 LG48 (puzzle gun?). Not marked "LG48"
SER# Q(Cursive)188XX
Bbl: 1960 !!! and this is my puzzle
Cut unfinished machined flat under sight (G marked near sight)
Parked (new looking under wood, but old blue on exposed part--turning somewhat brown and MATCHING the receiver)
Wood: Not new, has character and handling marks but not "ratty";almost has tiger striping, shiny but not varnished nor stained nor sanded, faint very timid ghost of parts of a macaron but far from legible. ALL matching
Floor plate: matching, forged (not sheet metal)
Bayo: Matching, shallow diagonal knurling.
Metal finish: old blue almost turning plum, except wood covered section of bbl(parkerized)... bubba?
I have long thought this was a made up sample but the wood machining/fit for the grenade sight is too perfect and the rest of the wood looks umolested and honestly worn (my forensic analysis ). There were field conversions of 36's to 36 LG48 and marked as such, while the arsenal builds were not marked "LG48"(ISTBC), but why a 1960 barrel when the LG48 was obsolete since at least 1950-1951 when the NATO grenade was adopted ? (and the MAS 36-51 was already issued).
MAS 36-51
Ser# F600XX
Bbl: 1963 G near f/sight, no undercut as is on LG48
Wood: Crisp dark walnut with crisp Ser# parralel to barette, crisp macaron Octobre 1956
Bayo: Deep sharp 45deg knurling but not matching.
Floor plate: not matching (G series). Has bump out at rear end.
Metal finish: parkerized.
Bore recessed (counterbored) at muzzle on all 3 rifles.
Will post pix's if someone can tell me how to properly photograph rifles full length.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cultivons notre jardin -Voltaire in "Candide"
The Stone Master
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - The Stone Master on 07/25/2007 11:33:10 PM
orcmastiffs
Gunboards Member
USA
42 Posts
Posted - 07/26/2007 : 01:37:00 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stone Master:
Vonmazur's input under the "LG48 variations?" thread, below, addresses your barrel question.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - orcmastiffs on 07/26/2007 7:31:26 PM
Alamas
Gunboards Member
France
40 Posts
Posted - 07/26/2007 : 10:07:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can add these ones :
MAS 36 serial number H 963XX April 1940
MAS 36/51 serial number F 115XX 1953 month very damaged (may be a U and a T in top position for august but that could be either a O and a B for october).
I don't think that we could make any conclusion for the MAS 36 CR 39 (no year or month on the folding stock, no apparent logical in the serial numbers, locally transformed MAS 36 in Indochina, renumbered or not, and even rebuilt rifles for the "Dien Bien Phu" film by Schoendoerffer).
Make sure there is no hollow at the place of your serial number on the stock (re-use of the stock of another rifle, former serial number erased before the imprint of a new one). On a 07-15 M16 I have seen, the former serial number was almost entirely erased, but the MA cartouche was intact (The change was easy to see, the year was very different than the one on the chamber, but if the re-used stock had been of the same year?).
This is may be the explanantion for this anomaly : In "fusils et carabines de collection" by Pellaton, Caranta, Bonsignori and Jordanoglou, 2nd edition, page 115, a MAS 36, serial number H 97838 (markings on the barrel E L M), cartouche reproduced (drawing) and noted as septembre 1939.
Best regards
Alamas
orcmastiffs
Gunboards Member
USA
42 Posts
Posted - 07/26/2007 : 10:12:18 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alamas:
So many numbers on the master list are your contributions, and your H 963XX is another significant addition. We now see, implicit, over 20,000 "H" units accepted in that month, and an end date of April, or the first days of May, for that series.
Lastly, as the list expands, we might get a glimpse of whether the CR39 [Type 1] was built on reworked "F" receivers, or upon an unfinished serial number block, of that series.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - orcmastiffs on 08/07/2007 2:11:31 PM
Alamas
Gunboards Member
France
40 Posts
Posted - 07/27/2007 : 5:37:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the "Gazette des Armes" 34 of january 1976, Pierre LORAIN has given the following datas about the monthly production of the MAS 36 : 7000 units the 1st september 1939, 18000 units the 1st February 1940, and 30000 units the 1st may 1940. This not because it is written that it is true, but in that case, Pierre LORAIN seemed to be right.
To add some more "book knowledge", in a special issue of the "Gazette des armes" about the french armament between 1918 and 1940, Stéphane FERRARD wrote that 63000 MAS 36 were delivered when the reserve has joined their units on september the 3rd 1939, and a total of 250 000 had been delivered the 06/23/1940.
I hope this survey will help a lot to check these datas.
Best regards
Alamas
tplan
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
USA
834 Posts
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 01:54:30 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
G405XX, 1939, month unreadable, barrel MAT 1938. Receiver ring, E, shield G, diamond L, oval M.
John
orcmastiffs
Gunboards Member
USA
42 Posts
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 03:53:37 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tplan:
Thank you for the contribution with the expanded information. Your rifle exhibits the earliest "Shield G" to date.
lite-box
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
USA
616 Posts
Posted - 08/01/2007 : 12:54:26 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
H 96738 May 1940. In pre-war configuration, cartouche MAT( MAY ? ) S MA L 1940
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - lite-box on 08/01/2007 01:02:09 AM
orcmastiffs
Gunboards Member
USA
42 Posts
Posted - 08/01/2007 : 03:22:20 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lite-box:
The "T" in the month "MAT" is an "I". But that aside, this takes the "H" series into the fifth month of 1940, for the first time. Might I trouble you for the type of receiver and upper band, and the letter proofs which appear upon the receiver ring. Should you have cause to remove the fore wood, the date and manufacturer's code of the barrel would be welcomed.
Of further interest is the possibility that this is a delayed acceptance rifle, as we see a "J" series recorded for April, and thus antecedent.
Lite-Box:
Ref the pictures below: The upper band is a type one, without added/retained material in the area of the cross pin thread hole. Judging on the depth of the bolt cap, I believe that the receiver is also a type one, without the mill out at the tang.
Very nice rifle in pre Battle-of-France configuration, with only the sling looking to be post war.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - orcmastiffs on 08/02/2007 01:14:28 AM
lite-box
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
USA
616 Posts
Posted - 08/01/2007 : 6:30:34 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is MAI
recvr ring markings, E, G in shield, L in diamond, M in circle.
Not up to speed on band / recvr variations.. but here are some pics..
The " Story " that came with rifle was that it was a Vietnam War bringback
scotte
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
226 Posts
Posted - 08/05/2007 : 3:14:01 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mine is a L962XX still in the wrap from 3/1/76 referb. Bolt serial is same as reciever, rear site has MAC stamped on the rear, back end of bolt has a DM stamp, on the front top of real site, a II stamped and the range is 1200. Front site appears to have a hood on it, but not sure since it is still wrapped. Wood looks to be blond and in nice condition. I wish I could get to the barrel date, but cannot due to wrapping. Hope this helps.
scotte
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - scotte on 08/05/2007 3:15:28 PM
kelt
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
France
2315 Posts
Posted - 08/07/2007 : 10:13:47 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by orcmastiffs
Alamas:
So many numbers on the master list are your contributions, and your H 963XX is another significant addition. We now see, implicit, over 20,000 "H" units accepted in that month, and an end date of April, or the first days of May, for that series.
Regarding the out of sequence "G", from July 1939; the contributor has included pictures, which are to be seen above. There may be other late acceptance rifles on the list, but at this time, only this one has revealed itself.
Lastly, as the list expands, we might get a glimpse of whether the CR39 [Type 1] was built on reworked "F" receivers, or upon an unfinished serial number block, of that series.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert's G 67719 stamped july 39 is not out of sequence, it's my G 76328 with an unmarked replacement stock that was "guesstimated" as from June 39 based on the dates of reception from two other rifles (G35223 of 2-39 and G98738 of 10-39).
kelt
orcmastiffs
Gunboards Member
USA
42 Posts
Posted - 08/07/2007 : 2:22:28 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kelt:
Thank you for the correction. Adjustment has been made to the master list and the ancilary texts have been edited.
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Moderators,
If you think that it is inapropriate and if something is in the work, please delety
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 04:05:02 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We have an opportunity to retrieve some of the lost history of the MAS 36. By comparative listing of known artifacts, the anecdotal tales which accompany these rifles may be confirmed or rejected, and fresh inquiries and debates enjoined. The monthly production rates will reflect upon the rush to war and provide a glimpse of France's industrial society, from the mid 1930s to the spring of 1940.
Primarily this will be a compendium of butt stock serial numbers, and the month and year exhibited within the "MA" cartouche. But beyond this, the incorporation of committed changes may be dated, sub contractors identified and tracked, lead time of barrel production established, and anomalies noted.
So feel free to include such things as the type of upper band and receiver, the manufacture's code, the acceptance proofs upon the receiver ring, the date and code of the barrel, and any other information which you feel is of note. With time, it is hoped that photographic inclusions will document various features and sub types.
The scope of this thread, I assume, will be guided by the moderators, but the content will depend upon the participation of all board members, which is your good right. I am a dilettante in this matter, and have as much to learn here as any of you. I am serving only as the scrivener, so let me thank you in advance for your contributions and edifications.
Thomas M. Giles/ Orc Mastiffs
##################################################
G 11X October 1937
G 6241 March 1938 /Type 1 band & receiver /"E" Mfg. / L M C proofs /Barrel top- Full serial number & "E" & ["G" in shield] /Bottom flat-"RG" MAS 1937
G 11803 June 1938 /Type 1 band & receiver /"E" Mfg. / L M C proofs /Barrel top-"E" & ["G" in shield] /Bottom flat-"RG" MAS 1938
G 12806 June 1938 /Type 1 band & receiver /"E" Mfg. / L M C proofs /Barrel top-"E" & ["G" in shield] /Bottom flat-"RG" MAS 1938
G 167XX September 1938
G 325XX February 1939
G 34140 Unknown / Type 1 receiver /"E" Mfg. / L M C proofs /Barrel top-"F" [no proof] /Bottom flat-"G" MAT 1937
G 347XX February 1939
G 35223 Ferruary 1939
G 386XX February 1939
G 405XX Unknown 1939 /"E" Mfg. / L M G proofs /Barrel flat-MAT 1938
G 42XXX March 1939
G 45078 April 1939
G 453XX April 1939
G 67719 July 1939 / Type 1 band & receiver /Barrel bottom flat-"C" MAT 1938
G 76328 Unknown 1939
G 98738 October 1939
H 1397X December 1939
H 17066 December 1939
H 243XX January 1940
H 29251 Unknown 1940
H 34020 January 1940 /Type 1 band & receiver / "E" Mfg./ L M G proofs /Barrel top-"E" & ["G" in circle] /Bottom flat-"AS" MAS 1939
H 38566 February 1940
H 49756 February 1940 /Type 1 band & receiver
H 62535 March 1940 /Type 1 band & receiver/ "E" Mfg./ Concentric circles / L M [no final proof] /Barrel top-"E" [no proof] /Bottom flat-"C" MAT 1939
H 637XX March 1940
H 6399X March 1940
H 74410 April 1940 / Type 2 Transitional band & Type 2 modified receiver /"E" Mfg. / L M G proofs / "LK5" marked stock /Barrel top-"E" [no proof] /Bottom flat-"A" MAT 1939
H 753XX April 1940
H 79037 April 1940
H 82477 April 1940
H 8254X April 1940
H 91525 Unknown 1940 /Barrel flat MAT 1940
H 963XX April 1940
H 96738 May 1940 / Type 1 band & receiver / "E" Mfg./ L M G proofs / Perhaps a delayed acceptance rifle, as the J 6187 would otherwise be antecedent
J 6187 April 1940
J 8254 May 1940
J 20233 June 1940
K 2502 May 1940
K 7227 June 1940 / "E" "MF" Mfg.
L 35XX June 1940
****************************************************
K 319XX October 1944 /1940 Barrel / Type 2 rear sight base w/ Type 1 sight leaf & slider
****************************************************
Mystery Sterile / Type 2 band & receiver / Type 1 rear sight /Barrel top-"E" & [encircled "C" or "G"] /Bottom barrel flat-"RG" MAS 1939 / Receiver left flat marked "MAS Mle 1936" on partially milled surface.
Mystery #320 / Type 2 upper band & receiver
####################################################
M 435XX March [year not discernable]
M 88590 July 1946
Q 306X April 1950
####################################################
MAS 36-51
F 115XX [August or October] 1953
F 600XX October 1956 /1963 barrel / Walnut stocks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - orcmastiffs on 09/10/2007 03:04:19 AM
vivelacolo
Gunboards Super Premium Member
USA
304 Posts
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 6:29:34 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally a sticky for the inventory of MAS 36
Here is my list, they are close enough to the surface so I can get to them.
A couple of those, already, are possibly on the list.
G 347xx Fevrier 1939
G 677xx Juillet 1939 1er type all matching, got it last week end.
Download Attachment:
98.71 KB
Download Attachment:
171.09 KB
Download Attachment:
195.74 KB
H 47xx stock not readable bolt plug 2nd type
H 89xx stock not readable bolt plug 2nd type
H 385xx Fevrier 1940
H 825xx Avril 1940
Mystery MAS 36 #320 bolt plug 2nd type, reinforced front band at the screw.
Post war oddities
MAS 36 LG 48 Q 224xx stock not readable forehand walnut 1st type
M 435xx mars ? could be 46.
Download Attachment:
161.21 KB
Download Attachment:
164.6 KB
As others prewar MAS 36 emerge I will post them on the list.
I believe that the first two modifications were the reinforcement at the screw of the front band and the modification of the bolt plug. The date at which it was started?
This survey will be extremely helpful, thank you.
Best regards
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Olivier
The Stone Master
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
160 Posts
Posted - 07/25/2007 : 10:34:17 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAS 36 (formerly "mummyfied")
SER# K884XX
Bbl: 1962, G near f/sight, no undercut (this undercut is only on LG48's it seems)
Wood: standard 70's refurb, no markings, birch, new
Floorplate: not serialized. Forged (not sheet metal)
Bayonet: not serialized, crisp 90deg knurling.
Metal finish: parkerized
MAS 36 LG48 (puzzle gun?). Not marked "LG48"
SER# Q(Cursive)188XX
Bbl: 1960 !!! and this is my puzzle
Cut unfinished machined flat under sight (G marked near sight)
Parked (new looking under wood, but old blue on exposed part--turning somewhat brown and MATCHING the receiver)
Wood: Not new, has character and handling marks but not "ratty";almost has tiger striping, shiny but not varnished nor stained nor sanded, faint very timid ghost of parts of a macaron but far from legible. ALL matching
Floor plate: matching, forged (not sheet metal)
Bayo: Matching, shallow diagonal knurling.
Metal finish: old blue almost turning plum, except wood covered section of bbl(parkerized)... bubba?
I have long thought this was a made up sample but the wood machining/fit for the grenade sight is too perfect and the rest of the wood looks umolested and honestly worn (my forensic analysis ). There were field conversions of 36's to 36 LG48 and marked as such, while the arsenal builds were not marked "LG48"(ISTBC), but why a 1960 barrel when the LG48 was obsolete since at least 1950-1951 when the NATO grenade was adopted ? (and the MAS 36-51 was already issued).
MAS 36-51
Ser# F600XX
Bbl: 1963 G near f/sight, no undercut as is on LG48
Wood: Crisp dark walnut with crisp Ser# parralel to barette, crisp macaron Octobre 1956
Bayo: Deep sharp 45deg knurling but not matching.
Floor plate: not matching (G series). Has bump out at rear end.
Metal finish: parkerized.
Bore recessed (counterbored) at muzzle on all 3 rifles.
Will post pix's if someone can tell me how to properly photograph rifles full length.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cultivons notre jardin -Voltaire in "Candide"
The Stone Master
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - The Stone Master on 07/25/2007 11:33:10 PM
orcmastiffs
Gunboards Member
USA
42 Posts
Posted - 07/26/2007 : 01:37:00 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stone Master:
Vonmazur's input under the "LG48 variations?" thread, below, addresses your barrel question.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - orcmastiffs on 07/26/2007 7:31:26 PM
Alamas
Gunboards Member
France
40 Posts
Posted - 07/26/2007 : 10:07:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can add these ones :
MAS 36 serial number H 963XX April 1940
MAS 36/51 serial number F 115XX 1953 month very damaged (may be a U and a T in top position for august but that could be either a O and a B for october).
I don't think that we could make any conclusion for the MAS 36 CR 39 (no year or month on the folding stock, no apparent logical in the serial numbers, locally transformed MAS 36 in Indochina, renumbered or not, and even rebuilt rifles for the "Dien Bien Phu" film by Schoendoerffer).
Make sure there is no hollow at the place of your serial number on the stock (re-use of the stock of another rifle, former serial number erased before the imprint of a new one). On a 07-15 M16 I have seen, the former serial number was almost entirely erased, but the MA cartouche was intact (The change was easy to see, the year was very different than the one on the chamber, but if the re-used stock had been of the same year?).
This is may be the explanantion for this anomaly : In "fusils et carabines de collection" by Pellaton, Caranta, Bonsignori and Jordanoglou, 2nd edition, page 115, a MAS 36, serial number H 97838 (markings on the barrel E L M), cartouche reproduced (drawing) and noted as septembre 1939.
Best regards
Alamas
orcmastiffs
Gunboards Member
USA
42 Posts
Posted - 07/26/2007 : 10:12:18 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alamas:
So many numbers on the master list are your contributions, and your H 963XX is another significant addition. We now see, implicit, over 20,000 "H" units accepted in that month, and an end date of April, or the first days of May, for that series.
Lastly, as the list expands, we might get a glimpse of whether the CR39 [Type 1] was built on reworked "F" receivers, or upon an unfinished serial number block, of that series.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - orcmastiffs on 08/07/2007 2:11:31 PM
Alamas
Gunboards Member
France
40 Posts
Posted - 07/27/2007 : 5:37:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the "Gazette des Armes" 34 of january 1976, Pierre LORAIN has given the following datas about the monthly production of the MAS 36 : 7000 units the 1st september 1939, 18000 units the 1st February 1940, and 30000 units the 1st may 1940. This not because it is written that it is true, but in that case, Pierre LORAIN seemed to be right.
To add some more "book knowledge", in a special issue of the "Gazette des armes" about the french armament between 1918 and 1940, Stéphane FERRARD wrote that 63000 MAS 36 were delivered when the reserve has joined their units on september the 3rd 1939, and a total of 250 000 had been delivered the 06/23/1940.
I hope this survey will help a lot to check these datas.
Best regards
Alamas
tplan
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
USA
834 Posts
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 01:54:30 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
G405XX, 1939, month unreadable, barrel MAT 1938. Receiver ring, E, shield G, diamond L, oval M.
John
orcmastiffs
Gunboards Member
USA
42 Posts
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 03:53:37 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
tplan:
Thank you for the contribution with the expanded information. Your rifle exhibits the earliest "Shield G" to date.
lite-box
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
USA
616 Posts
Posted - 08/01/2007 : 12:54:26 AM
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H 96738 May 1940. In pre-war configuration, cartouche MAT( MAY ? ) S MA L 1940
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Edited by - lite-box on 08/01/2007 01:02:09 AM
orcmastiffs
Gunboards Member
USA
42 Posts
Posted - 08/01/2007 : 03:22:20 AM
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Lite-box:
The "T" in the month "MAT" is an "I". But that aside, this takes the "H" series into the fifth month of 1940, for the first time. Might I trouble you for the type of receiver and upper band, and the letter proofs which appear upon the receiver ring. Should you have cause to remove the fore wood, the date and manufacturer's code of the barrel would be welcomed.
Of further interest is the possibility that this is a delayed acceptance rifle, as we see a "J" series recorded for April, and thus antecedent.
Lite-Box:
Ref the pictures below: The upper band is a type one, without added/retained material in the area of the cross pin thread hole. Judging on the depth of the bolt cap, I believe that the receiver is also a type one, without the mill out at the tang.
Very nice rifle in pre Battle-of-France configuration, with only the sling looking to be post war.
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Edited by - orcmastiffs on 08/02/2007 01:14:28 AM
lite-box
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
USA
616 Posts
Posted - 08/01/2007 : 6:30:34 PM
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It is MAI
recvr ring markings, E, G in shield, L in diamond, M in circle.
Not up to speed on band / recvr variations.. but here are some pics..
The " Story " that came with rifle was that it was a Vietnam War bringback
scotte
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
226 Posts
Posted - 08/05/2007 : 3:14:01 PM
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Mine is a L962XX still in the wrap from 3/1/76 referb. Bolt serial is same as reciever, rear site has MAC stamped on the rear, back end of bolt has a DM stamp, on the front top of real site, a II stamped and the range is 1200. Front site appears to have a hood on it, but not sure since it is still wrapped. Wood looks to be blond and in nice condition. I wish I could get to the barrel date, but cannot due to wrapping. Hope this helps.
scotte
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Edited by - scotte on 08/05/2007 3:15:28 PM
kelt
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
France
2315 Posts
Posted - 08/07/2007 : 10:13:47 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by orcmastiffs
Alamas:
So many numbers on the master list are your contributions, and your H 963XX is another significant addition. We now see, implicit, over 20,000 "H" units accepted in that month, and an end date of April, or the first days of May, for that series.
Regarding the out of sequence "G", from July 1939; the contributor has included pictures, which are to be seen above. There may be other late acceptance rifles on the list, but at this time, only this one has revealed itself.
Lastly, as the list expands, we might get a glimpse of whether the CR39 [Type 1] was built on reworked "F" receivers, or upon an unfinished serial number block, of that series.
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Robert's G 67719 stamped july 39 is not out of sequence, it's my G 76328 with an unmarked replacement stock that was "guesstimated" as from June 39 based on the dates of reception from two other rifles (G35223 of 2-39 and G98738 of 10-39).
kelt
orcmastiffs
Gunboards Member
USA
42 Posts
Posted - 08/07/2007 : 2:22:28 PM
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Kelt:
Thank you for the correction. Adjustment has been made to the master list and the ancilary texts have been edited.
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