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Platinum Bullet Member and Certified Curmudgeon
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This is one you don't see every day, a Manchurian Type 13 long rifle aka "Mukden Mauser". About 140,000 were made at Mukden Arsenal in 1924-1931. My s/n 69918 (bolt 46260, trigger guard 918) is about halfway through the production. The trigger guard is matching and the first two digits of the bolt s/n are on the bottom side of the bolt arm root.

It was developed from the Steyr M1917 which was an experimental Mauser design with a Mannlicher type magazine. Later Steyr developed the experimental M1931a in 1931 which was about the same as the Type 13. Only Manchuria used the design. The Type 13 has a Mauser type magazine, a unique bolt (same bolt as on both Steyr prototypes), gas holes in the receiver ring, and a dust cover (missing on mine).

Original bayonets, if you can find one, are very expensive. Mine is a substitute using an unmarked Brazilian M1908 bayonet and an unmarked metal scabbard from another bayonet. It looks very similar to the original. My blade length is 11 3/4 inch as compared to the original 11 1/8 inch hooked quillon bayonet. The sling and cleaning rod are reproductions. The frog is Romanian.
 

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Congratulations on finding such a rare type! You can see some Japanese design in the bolt knob and receiver gas holes. It's in amazingly good condition too.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Congratulations on finding such a rare type! You can see some Japanese design in the bolt knob and receiver gas holes. It's in amazingly good condition too.
Obviously Mukden Arsenal got the basic design and almost certainly manufacturing tools from Steyr.

More info here: https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?870281-Prototype-Steyr-Solothurn-Mauser-in-8x56R-ID-help-requested

and here: https://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?409385-Steyr-M-17-30-rifle

and here: http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread....othurn-mystery

The photos show that the bolt knob design was on the original Steyr prototype. As said above, the gas holes in the receiver ring were probably a request from Mudken Arsenal. Mudken would have been familiar with the Japanese Type 38 rifle and in fact they made the Type 38 after they quit making the Type 13.
 

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Bill, here is mine. Dont know if you are collecting serial numbers. Mine is 115250. It is all matching except for the floor plate. Ed
 

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Very interesting Mauser! It incorporates quite a mix of design elements.

According to Bin Shih (ed. Stanley Zielinski) "China's Small Arms of the 2nd Sino-Japanese War (1937-45)". The Mukden Arsenal was also known as the Three-Provinces Arsenal and was located in Mukden (Shenyang City). It became the largest arsenal in China in the late 1920s. Unfortunately, it was captured by the Japanese and later retooled for Japanese Type 99 production.
 

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Right or wrong I have heard others call these “ Manchuka “ Mausers.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Right or wrong I have heard others call these “ Manchuka “ Mausers.
Ed, the country is Manchuko - maybe that is what they meant. That's about the same as saying "Manchurian".

Thanks for posting your photos. Yours is prettier than mine but where's your bayonet & sling? :)

As for serial numbers, we have two in this thread and that may be all we get.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Mukden Type 38 siderail marking and Type 30 bayonet ricasso marking.
 

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Bill as far as a sling and bayonet, I know you have heard of the term “Hens teeth”. If I remember correctly a distributor had a small amount of these a few years back. Never did read how they acquired them. I have seen only one other one in person and that was about 40 years back and he wanted $ 600.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Bill as far as a sling and bayonet, I know you have heard of the term “Hens teeth”. If I remember correctly a distributor had a small amount of these a few years back. Never did read how they acquired them. I have seen only one other one in person and that was about 40 years back and he wanted $ 600.

Ed, I understand. That's why I have a repro sling & cleaning rod and a substitute similar bayonet on my Type 13. I have this thing about all my rifles needing a bayonet, sling, cleaning rod, bayonet/scabbard/frog, original if possible, and at least some ammo. My pistols need a holster, extra mag(s), cleaning rod (if attached to holster), tool (same), original if possible, ammo, and sometimes a lanyard if I can find an original.

I know someone somewhere has a Type 13 bayonet because I saw a photo and copied the given blade length.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
OK, here is the beginning of the 'official' Manchurian (Mukden) Type 13 long rifle serial number list:

3544 (bolt mismatched) in posts 11 and 21
18144 in post 28
69918 (bolt 46260) in post 1
115250 (bolt matching) in post 4


About 140,000 were made with no s/n prefix or suffix in 1924-1931.
 

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I can add #3544 to the serial number list. Mismatched bolt, not as nice as those pictured.
With that low serial number, what you probably have is the early version. I would very much like to see a photo of your rifle. Can't trust my memory about what are the differences between the early and later versions - have to do home work. Does it have the usual Mukden bolt or the standard M98 Mauser bolt? There is someone on the Japanese arms board that has been keeping data about the Type 13's.
 

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The differences between early and late Type 13's:

The early variety has: 1. Tapered barrel, 2. Receiver has a slot in the rear to hold the handguard, 3. Spring on the upper part of the trigger sear with a slot on the bottom of the receiver to hold the spring.

The later variety has: 1. Stepped barrel, typical Mauser style, 2. No slot on the receiver for the handguard, 3. Typical Mauser style trigger sear, no visible spring.

The early ones used machinery that was obtained from a Danish company, probably war surplus German. Germany was required to remove war machinery as well as weapons by the Treaty of Versailles but they were also not allowed deal in military arms. The machinery was obtained in 1922, and set up and ready for production in 1924 (Year 13 of the Republic of China). There was an embargo on military weapons to China led by UK when China degenerated into the Warlord era with endless wars. The warlord of the Three Eastern Provinces (Manchuria) was probably getting around the embargo by buying machinery to produce weapons.

The original machinery was not satisfactory for some reason. Better machinery was obtained from Austria in 1926 and was set up and ready for production in 1928. Production greatly increased. Stanley Zielinsky reported that an example was found in the 15x,xxx serial number with no arsenal logo. This leads to speculation that some were made under Japanese control. Also, some in 6.5mm Arisaka caliber are known, but no information is available.
 

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Ryg, pm'ed you. Mukden bolt 41x, x=hardened gunk over number. Receiver slot for handguard. This was an 80's import from China, Paragon if I recall, got this, a Shanxi 38 and a 99 that they must have found under the dam. Fair condition, hand select (right hand or left, you choose, 5 bucks more, plus ammo that is pointed on one end.) Cant figure out how to post pics. I can email pics to anyone who would like some. PM me. Ps, I did love Paragon.
 

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Ryg, great information. Thanks. Would like to see pic's of a early one.
 

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Right or wrong I have heard others call these “ Manchuka “ Mausers.
Manchukuo (modern official spelling Manzhouguo) - "Manchu Nation" or "Land of the Manchus" was one of 3 puppet states set up by Japan in China. The other two were Mengkiang (now spelled Mengjiang) in Inner Mongolia and the Reformed Government of the Republic of China. Another puppet government in north China, the Provisional Government, eventually merged with the Reformed Government (capital: Nanking [now Nanjing]). The Mengkiang army was only about 10,000 strong and they were provided with 10,000 Type 13 rifles in the 1930's.
 

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Rug, thanks. Do what was the Nation of Manchu’s equipped with?
 

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Rug, thanks. Do what was the Nation of Manchu’s equipped with?
At first (1932), the Manchukuo Army inherited the arms of the Chinese army in their territory which came to 26 types of long arms. The primary types at that time were probably the Type13, the vz.24 and Arisakas*. The former warlord of Manchuria bought large numbers of vz.24's . .. The warlord's army captured a lot of Arisakas from other Chinese armies during the warlord years, and obtained a lot of Arisakas left behind by the Czech Legion of the Russian Civil War fame as they left for home - the warlord provided free transportation through their territory, etc to the seaports in exchange for all the equipment left behind. They may also have obtained some directly from the Japanese. In 1934, the decision was made to standardize on the T38 Arisaka. It took until about 1940 for total re-equipment. The other weapons were relegated to the police, home guard and the such.

*Addendum: I should have mentioned they probably had numbers of the Hanyang rifle, the most prolific type of rifle in Chinese service at that time (1930's).
 
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