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Mak accuracy

Topic author: Tom Norton
Subject: Mak accuracy
Posted on: 09/18/2006 09:32:14 AM
Message:

fairly decent accuracy in adjustable sight model but thought it would be better, used winchester fmj ammo. Any suggestions on how to improve? hoped for a near tack-driver with these sights. Gun hasn't been shot much, I bought it used and ran just 20 rds. through for function check which was fine, no bobbles at all.
Maybe lap the barrel or try other ammo?

Replies:


Reply author: shucks
Replied on: 09/18/2006 11:02:54 AM
Message:

My Bulgie is Uber Accurate with fixed sighte as far as im concerned. I would try the fiochi ammo from Mak.com if they have any. That's the only thing I've ever shot, and it functions flawlessly. Hope that helps


Reply author: Ice
Replied on: 09/18/2006 12:12:55 PM
Message:

Since you have just 20rds through the pistol I think that accuracy will improve when you shoot a lot more. The action will smooth up and you will get used to the trigger and the "feel" of the pistol. A different brand/bullet weight of ammo might help too.

Ice


Reply author: arcom the first
Replied on: 09/18/2006 12:20:12 PM
Message:

Tom--With the Makarov and any other pistol with a short barreled blow-back actuated design, you're very unlikely to achieve tack driver status. However, accuracy can be improved by honing some of the components and using only top quality ammo, which in 9x18 will be hard....you won't find Black Hills hand loading any ammo for your pistol. Look at the velocity variations in North Bender's chrony tests and choose a round with the lowest variation. For example, a bullet with a tested velocity of 1000 to 1100 fps, even though much faster, would not be my choice over a bullet with a 950-970 fps tested variation.

If there is play in the slide to frame fit, you can have a smith tighten it some. But the Makarov slide is made from quality steel and requires a very hefty--and perhaps dangerous-- wack to change it's dimensions. Putting it in a vice and leaving it tightened for a few days might help although 3 days for a loose German Mak I owned had very little effect. Maybe a week would have been better. A too loose slide is death for shot-to-shot accuracy. What's too loose? I'm not sure..a slight amount of play is necessary for smooth functioning but too much wobble means the slide will not lock up in precisely the same spot from shot to shot hence erratic groups...3 holes nicely centered inside a bull with one flyer out at 2 o'clock that you know was properly aligned before you squeezed it off.

The adjustable sight is not a great aid to accuracy...the aperture is too wide. Good for defensive use, bad for target shooting. There have been complaints of the rear sight being loose in a sense that once a zero is obtained it cannot be maintained from shot to shot. That has not been my experience, but I don't expect a lot to begin with. If I can pump 10 shots into a grapefruit at 25' (that's feet, not yards), I'm satisfied. If you consider accuracy to be defined as the tightness of a group regardless of where that group strikes the paper, the factory fixed sights will likely yield better accuracy due to the much smaller rear sight opening which will provide a more precise sight alignment at the expense of how quick that alignment is achieved. The adjustable rear sight allows where you aim to be just where the bullet will strike and provides the advantage of quick elevation adjustment which the fixed rear sight does not--a big advantage when shooting different brands and types of ammo because differences in bullet velocity are reflected in different points of impact at any given distance with the differences being in elevation much more than windage.

Trying different grips may aid in more consistent shot placement. Some shooters really like the rubbery Pearce grip (like me) while others prefer the Makarap grip. The factory grips are intended to maximize concealability---thin, flat and no thumb rests while aftermarket grips can provide a more stable and comfortable grip at the expense of thickness.

Barrel lapping on a chrome lined barrel may not achieve the same results as on a steel barrel but it's worth a try.

In any case, just shooting the snot out of your pistol may be the best thing to do.

Good shooting and welcome aboard!


Reply author: Enfield4Mk1
Replied on: 09/18/2006 1:05:18 PM
Message:

Don't bother lapping the barrel, as it's chrome lined (assuming yours is Russian commercial - adjustable sights) and will take forever to wear down. Some pistols due to varying tolerances just shoot better than others. That said, try several brands of ammo and you may find something that yours will like better. I've had somewhat better results with rounds pushing 90 gr Gold Dot HPs (Georgia Arms and the defunct CCI Blazer HP) and Hornady 95 gr HPs and one of my Maks likes 115gr Silver Bear HPs. I bought two new Russian commercial Maks years ago and one is definitely more accurate than the other although both are really good for a pocket pistol. Individual pistols just vary that way.


Reply author: oldguy
Replied on: 09/18/2006 1:35:37 PM
Message:

The Mak is capable of excellent accuracy due to the fixed barrel
but the truth is the best accuracy comes from reloaded ammo, commercial ammo is a one size fits all type thing. Most guns are more
accurate with reduced loads that is why most of my shooting is with
my own ammo. I will add that some commercial rifle ammo has really
improved last few years and match reloads in some guns for accuracy.


Reply author: TENNESSEEAN
Replied on: 09/18/2006 9:57:28 PM
Message:

Yep, they can be accurate. By the way this is one is about 4 years old that I like to show ST every now and then and yes I have some new ones from this weekend just haven't scanned them in yet, coming soon with some surprises as to accuracy now.




Reply author: Tom Norton
Replied on: 09/19/2006 04:06:54 AM
Message:

quote:Originally posted by TENNESSEEAN

Yep, they can be accurate. By the way this is one is about 4 years old that I like to show ST every now and then and yes I have some new ones from this weekend just haven't scanned them in yet, comming soon with some surprises as to accuracy now.



That's as good a group from any handgun I've seen, if you got any tips to get my Mak to shoot like that I'm listening. It does OK, maybe grapefruit size group at 25' if I hold firm and squeeze smooth.


Reply author: TENNESSEEAN
Replied on: 09/19/2006 11:46:19 PM
Message:

Tips on getting a Mak to shoot like this one I only wish I knew. It's the most accurate Mak I've ever owned and nothing has been done to it outside of a 21# wolf spring. I got it from Dan's several years ago as a scratch and dent special, $100 when the going price was @140 for Bulgies.
Here's some tips for the shooter, find a good comfortable stance and grip that you can repeat the same each time, wearing a good pair of shooting gloves really cuts down on fatigue and while wer're on that subject stop and rest every now and then, fatigue brings on bad habits. Finger placement on the trigger is critical, you've go to do it the same each time. Learn to shoot with both eyes open, shooting with one eye closed messes up your depth perception. Wear a good pair of safety glasses, beware of some of the cheaper plastic lens ones they can distort your vision, if you wear perscription glasses have pair made up for shooting and tell the Doc what you want them for. Wear a good pair of muffs, I've found them to be more comfortable and easier to use than plugs. There's more and I'm sure I've forgotten some but others here will chip in if I have. Then practice, practice and practice some more and while you're at it try differen't ammo till you find one that shoots best in you're particular gun. Good luck, good shooting and by the way welcome to the world of Maks.

Reply author: Tom Norton
Replied on: 09/20/2006 08:38:30 AM
Message:

quote:Originally posted by TENNESSEEAN

Tips on getting a Mak to shoot like this one I only wish I knew. It's the most accurate Mak I've ever owned and nothing has been done to it outside of a 21# wolf spring. I got it from Dan's several years ago as a scratch and dent special, $100 when the going price was @140 for Bulgies.
Here's some tips for the shooter, find a good comfortable stance and grip that you can repeat the same each time, wearing a good pair of shooting gloves really cuts down on fatigue and while wer're on that subject stop and rest every now and then, fatigue brings on bad habits. Finger placement on the trigger is critical, you've go to do it the same each time. Learn to shoot with both eyes open, shooting with one eye closed messes up your depth perception. Wear a good pair of safety glasses, beware of some of the cheaper plastic lens ones they can distort your vision, if you wear perscription glasses have pair made up for shooting and tell the Doc what you want them for. Wear a good pair of muffs, I've found them to be more comfortable and easier to use than plugs. There's more and I'm sure I've forgotten some but others here will chip in if I have. Then practice, practice and practice some more and while you're at it try differen't ammo till you find one that shoots best in you're particular gun. Good luck, good shooting and by the way welcome to the world of Maks.


Thanks for the welcome Tennessee, I'm an Appalachian American also, actually in the Blue Ridge near the SC border. Hope I get a little better accuracy out of my Mak, I've got an out-of-the-box S&W 915 that cloverleafs at that range, couldn't believe my eyes. I consider my Mak acceptable, but would really be pleased if I could put all shots on an apple-size target at 25' instead of grapefruit size. My colt .45 gets a golf ball at that range. But I'll do some more load and bullet experimenting.


Reply author: shucks
Replied on: 09/21/2006 09:38:07 AM
Message:

I change my mind today. After a go with a plate machine at 15yds, I think my 50% to 60% performance at that distance has to be the mak's fault. I have rarely been so embarassed. So I think My mak must have horrible accuracy. My 1911, Glock, and SAA all performed similiarly, does anyone know what the problem could be? Or a good gunsmith that could fix them for me? I'm distraught.


Reply author: Enfield4Mk1
Replied on: 09/21/2006 11:12:23 AM
Message:

"So I think My mak must have horrible accuracy"

I don't understand you here. You think it must? Have you tried carefully shooting it rested (on paper targets) to see how it actually performs? If not, you could be shooting 1 inch groups at the edge of the plate and only catching it half the time. Maks are notorious for shooting high with standard sights (as they were designed to do)and if you don't know where yours impacts and adjust the sight picture accordingly you can miss the target.


Reply author: oldguy
Replied on: 09/21/2006 12:54:06 PM
Message:

Trigger and ammo are two variables in an accurate handgun, the third
is practice. If someone normally shoots a 1911 and then switches to
a mak with its small sights and short sighting radius it will take
several hundred rounds before becoming proficient. Overall if you
can shoot a grapefruit size circle at 25 Yard's off hand pretty darn
good for gun and shooter.


Reply author: Tom Norton
Replied on: 09/22/2006 11:25:54 AM
Message:

quote:Originally posted by oldguy

Trigger and ammo are two variables in an accurate handgun, the third
is practice. If someone normally shoots a 1911 and then switches to
a mak with its small sights and short sighting radius it will take
several hundred rounds before becoming proficient. Overall if you
can shoot a grapefruit size circle at 25 Yard's off hand pretty darn
good for gun and shooter.



25 yards that would be good accuracy, but I'm at 25 feet, on a sort of a rest, just steadied against a post. around grapefruit size group


Reply author: Tom Norton
Replied on: 09/22/2006 11:27:47 AM
Message:

quote:Originally posted by oldguy

Trigger and ammo are two variables in an accurate handgun, the third
is practice. If someone normally shoots a 1911 and then switches to
a mak with its small sights and short sighting radius it will take
several hundred rounds before becoming proficient. Overall if you
can shoot a grapefruit size circle at 25 Yard's off hand pretty darn
good for gun and shooter.



25 yards that would be good accuracy, but I'm at 25 feet, on a sort of a rest, just steadied against a post. around grapefruit size group


Reply author: DirkDiggler6903
Replied on: 09/23/2006 1:57:27 PM
Message:

I can barely hit any thing with my bulgie mak. My G/F bought a IJ-70. It comes pretty close to a tack driver. Both have never had a jam or a misfire tho. Better than I can say about the $1000. Kimber


Reply author: oldguy
Replied on: 09/23/2006 5:08:54 PM
Message:

quote:Originally posted by DirkDiggler6903

I can barely hit any thing with my bulgie mak. My G/F bought a IJ-70. It comes pretty close to a tack driver. Both have never had a jam or a misfire tho. Better than I can say about the $1000. Kimber



I purchased a arsenal model some years back that appeared new in the box, I was disappointed with accuracy but noticed trigger would wobble(?) more then normal, disassembled and found a trigger with
a very large oval hole, replaced trigger and bar, now it is one of my best. Because of short sight picture/ short barrel any trigger
problem really comes to the front. Again, inaccurate Mak., its the
trigger, ammo, shooter in any order.


Reply author: criticalbass
Replied on: 09/23/2006 9:34:17 PM
Message:

quote:Originally posted by Enfield4Mk1

"So I think My mak must have horrible accuracy"

I don't understand you here. You think it must? Have you tried carefully shooting it rested (on paper targets) to see how it actually performs? If not, you could be shooting 1 inch groups at the edge of the plate and only catching it half the time. Maks are notorious for shooting high with standard sights (as they were designed to do)and if you don't know where yours impacts and adjust the sight picture accordingly you can miss the target.

Look closely and you will see that shucks may have his tongue firmly in his cheek.

About tightening Mak slides--I have experimented with trying to change the sight picture by messing with slides while the frame is in a vise. Haven't been able to induce any variation. Since the frame and barrel are pressed/staked together, this provides a pretty stable platform. As has been observed earlier, a blow-back gun with itty bitty hard for old guys to see sights is not going to be a tack driver. If I want to drive tacks, I use my Kimber (which is still not 100 percent reliable, but will drive tacks really deep!), or my heavy barrel Ruger MK II with the Wilson combat trigger (Wilson doesn't do .22 work any more).

Arcom, How does the length of time in a vise affect the amount of bending in the sides of the slide? I can see that more pressure = more distortion, but I do not understand why more time would have any effect.

At ten yards, all of my Maks are capable of groups around an inch. That's with a very firm rest, and using an aperture small enough to focus sights and target (cover over shooting eye with little hole in it).

For a combat pistol the Mak has accuracy aplenty. For competition, one needs a competition gun. CB


Reply author: Parisite
Replied on: 09/23/2006 11:55:19 PM
Message:

I personally have been quite amazed at the accuracy of the average Makarov pistol and I think the large majority of Mak owners are as well. It is true however that accuracy varies among individual pistols in varying degrees. I have about 3 of them that I can repetedly make a 12oz. Coke can dance a jig at 25yds. On the other hand I have a '63 EG that shoots extremely high, so high that no "factory" sight changes or adjustment can come close to taming it.

Reply author: Gunruner
Replied on: 09/24/2006 7:20:36 PM
Message:

I've put over 5,000 rounds through a Russian commercial Mak. It was always accurate with my hnadloads. Used up 2 standard recoil springs and then went to a Wolf 19# and it seems to be ok. I loaded for it with cut down 9mm Luger brass as their wasn't any 9X18 in the US at the time. I've shot Bulgarians, E. Germans, Russians and Chinese, they are all very accurate. Fixed barrel blow back guns (aka Walther types) are far more accurate than tilting barrel(aka Colt 1911)guns. I carry a Chinese Mak concealed for self defence loaded with Hornady XTP bullets. Reliability is 100% and is a natural pointer. If I can point my finger at a target that's exactly where the Mak shoots, no need for night sights. Strong tough accurate reliable excellent guns IMO...................Mike


Reply author: g8rforester
Replied on: 09/24/2006 10:43:13 PM
Message:

Accuracy will come with practice.

After putting darn near 1000 rounds through my Bulgy, the first shot of every recent range session takes out the X in the bullseye at 7 yards. After that, it's generally one ragged 3 inch hole. I actually found my accuracy improved when I removed the Pierce grips and put the red stars back on.

I don't think I could love this piece of Commie "junk" more!


Reply author: shucks
Replied on: 09/25/2006 11:48:19 AM
Message:

"Look closely and you will see that shucks may have his tongue firmly in his cheek."

I've been away from the internet since thursday, or I would have straightened this out earlier. I was really commenting on my dismal performance in my tangle with the plate machine. I do second the post upthread that commented on ammo. I went back to the range shooting a different box of fiochi ammo, and I had a completely different experience, the first box was hot enough to make the gun uncomfortable to shoot after 60 or so rounds. Exact same box, from the exact same place, with a total 180 in accuracy and recoil. I love my mak, and only wish I could curb my new-gun buying habit enough to save up for another. Maybe after that CZ 40p gets here today.
 
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