[Devildog888]

I just aqured this rifle. Markings are: GEAERFABRIKEN KJOBENHAV M1891, below that is M.89. It came with a bag of parts. Do they belong, if so where? What size round does this rifle use? Any info would be of help....
-Devildog888

 

[kriggevaer]

I don't know what those parts go to, but they don't go on your M1889. The Danish Krag-Jørgensens were chambered for the 8x58 Rimmed Danish cartridge, abbreviated to 8x58RD. Ammunition has not been in production for a long time and is pretty much a handloading situation.

 

[Devildog888]

Kriggevaer

Thanx for the info, is the M1889 same as the M1891??
-Devildog888

 

[kriggevaer]

I believe the 1891 you are referring to is the year your rifle was made and not a model number. That is the number that follows the "GEVÆRFABRIKEN KJØBENHAVN" stamping on the receiver on your rifle. Your rifle was an early production infantry rifle that had the stock cut down and sporterized some where along the way. Starting in 1910 the Krag rifles had a safety mounted to them, which is the pivoting mechanism on the right rear of the receiver. Your rifle has had that modification done. Do your serial numbers match the receiver number? The most visible parts, the barrel, bolt, and the stock will have the serial number stamped on them also. The stock serial number will be underneath the wrist/butt area. The bolt number will be on the body of the bolt on the lug you can see when the bolt is in the forward position. and the barrel number should be right next to the receiver number. The serial number will also be stamped on the bayonet lug. On the magazine parts, the last three numbers of the serial number will be stamped.

 

[Carcano]

the 8x58 Rimmed Danish cartridge, abbreviated to 8x58RD. Ammunition has not been in production for a long time

Would you know when Norma stopped civilian production? In the 1960s or the 1970s?

Carcano

 

[kriggevaer]

There may have been some NOS that carried on into the 1970s, but based on Norma factory records and documents it appears that production of 8x58RD ended in the early to mid 1960s.

 

[lindvig]

Hallo

You can buy new 8x58RD ammunition in Denmark again

http://www.bisgaardnielsen.dk/group.asp?group=41




Lindvig

 

[snowhunter]

Looks you need deep pockets to buy those new 8X58R cartridges.

Price for each cartridge:

"Blodnasede" (softpoint in danish kroner: 22.50, about $ 4.- each)

"Spidsskarp" (FMJ, Norma manufacture, in danish kroner: 13.50, about $ 2.50 for each)

Wondering if these Norma FMJ actually are of the old 1960th manufacture. It would be wonderful news if Norma had restarted producing the 8X58R again.

For reloading, boxer primed 45-70 brass can easily be formed in a full lenght 8X58R resizer, and I have succesfully resized and fireformed 7.62X54 Russian into 8X58R, althought little bit shorter than the original 8X58R case.

The Australian company, `Bertram` do make new 8X58R Brass, which needs to be annealed before any reloading, if split cases has to be avoided.

Also a big Velkommen to Lindvig for his first post in these fine pages.

 

[lindvig]

Thank you for the welcome.

I have been told (I don't know if its true) that Norma would start again if somebody wants 100.000 pcs. or more.

Lindvig

 

[sbhva]

I think those rounds on the website were old stock since they are priced "each" instead of by the box. Most of the ammo listed looked like collector stuff.

 

[lindvig]

In line 5 and 6 on the site: http://www.bisgaardnielsen.dk/group.asp?group=41

Stands:

Sjældne riffelpatroner.
Disse patroner er nyfremstillede, CIP testede og pakket i 20 stk. æsker

Which means: rare riflecartridges, these cartridges are new made, CIP tested and put in 20 pcs. boxes

But you are right they are priced "each".

Lindvig

 

[snowhunter]

I suspect that these, no name brand, newly produced and "rare cartridges" actually are reloads, hence the 8-10 days "leveringstids"(delivery) ? Only "Norma's" 8 X58R, FMJ have the benefit of having the manufactors name mentioned, where as the 8 X 58R "bloednaese" loaded cartridge, clearly appears to be of a "No Name" brand.

Lindvig, do you know what "CIP testing" stands for ? Has this something to do with that danish reloaders, after some certified instructions and test, have to be duly licensed by the danish government/police?

I also notices that this particular danish company is selling "Genladning-Hyldstre", which means "reloading equipment and empty cartridge cases", as well as catering to the historical shooting buffs, "Historisk skydning", and would therefore most likely stock empty 8 X58R brass of Australian "Bertram"
manufacture, or they would simply reform various, new 47-70 caliber cases, into 8 X 58R, for use in their reloading process and sales, of "rare cartridges" ?

If other than "Bertram", and for example "Norma", started to manufacture new 8 X 58R brass or completely loaded cartridges, I would not go undetected for very long in these fine page

 

[lindvig]

Hallo

CIP means: Cartridge Identification Programme.


This is the identification program created for requirements of ammunition enthusiasts. It makes possible to identify the unknow cartridges according to easy detectable characteristics (fire,case shape, case length and the rim and base diameters). The working database currently consists of 1713 ammunition units.


http://ndcartridges.sweb.cz/

Denmark is not member of CIP, but it means that the ammunition is acording to the specifications from CIP.


Lindvig

 

[snowhunter]

I know one cartridge collector who have over 16000 different cartridges in his collection. I am pretty sure that many of them are different variations of the same caliber, and that is not counting and including all the "wildcat" calibers. At some point, RCBS alone, stocked over 3100 dies for "wildcat" calibers.

 

[elokoman]

My nice wife got some ammo from Buffalo Arms for me to use in my Dane for Christmas, have not had the opportunity to test it out just yet. Their ammo is not cheap, but might be an option that compares favorably to other options, or lack thereof.

 

[Amore2]

As far as I'm told, the Norma-ammo from Bisgaard are made on Dansk Ammunitionsfabrik Otterup in the late '50's and early '60's.

I would be very surprised, if the ammo doesn't look like the pictures below.

Best wishes

Niels

 

[snowhunter]

It clearly states on the ammo boxes that these 8 X 58R are produced in Otterup, Denmark. However, they cases are stamped with "Norma", which clearly indicates that the cases are made in Sweden. Intersting nordic co-operation !

 

[lindvig]

Hallo

Otterup Ammunitionsfabrik bought all cases and all powder from Norma. Primers they normally bought from switzerland.

Owners from Norma was also a part of the owners of Otterup Ammunitionsfabrik.



Lindvig

 

[snowhunter]

Which means that "Norma" must be storing the toolings for making the the 8X58R, and somewhere in Denmark, the loading machinery for the 8X58R cases are collecting dust ?

Could be interesting if we could contact as well as convince "Norma", to make a production run of some, annealed brass for the international reloaders, in this vintage and powerful caliber

How can one best contact "Norma" and make such a request ?

 

[lindvig]

Hallo

When Otterup Ammunitionsfabrik closed their production in 1980, the machinery was sendt to Norma in Oslo, Norway. As far as I know, they still have the mashinery, but I don't know if its placed in Norma in Sweeden now.

After Otterup Ammunitionsfabrik closed the production, the name still was used on the cartridges they sold even thought they where made in Oslo.

The real name for Otterup Ammunitionsfabrik is:
Dansk Ammunitionsfabrik, Otterup

A book has been released in 2007. It's the history about Schultz & Larsen riflecompany and Dansk Ammunitionsfabrik, Otterup. It is in 349 pages. Unfortunatly it is only in danish.

About the brass production, I have heard that they will start again if someone will buy at least 100.000 pieces. (don't know if it's true).

Lindvig