[aeo]

Hello everyone,
My M41B was sitting in the safe for a very long time and I finally took it to the range today. Pictures of the rifle, including marks on the receiver and the stock are attached. I also attached a picture of a box and round of 6.5 Swede surplus ammo that I was using and a target. Target was at 100 yards and it was a windy day, but at 100 yards it should not matter. These shts were placed after I was done adjusting the scope. Oh, and, I should say, I am an average shooter... meaning, I do jerk trigger from time to time and make other silly mistakes... just a disclaimer. One more thing... the second picture shows the gun with leather cheek piece attached to the stock. The piece is a repro and I ended up not using it because it was more comfortable to shoot without it. The gun functioned flawlessly, recoil was very mild (almost not noticeble), no misfires or bad rounds. The only problems I had were with the scope adjustments. I was very patient and gentle with the mount and worked out (almost!) very sensitive windage adjustment which is controlled by two screws in the rear claw. But I could not adjust the elevation. The red cross on the target shows my actual point of aim and three post reticle on the scope was moved up to it's highest maximum position. Consequently, I have several questions:
1. Is that because this is a battle rifle and, normally, battle rifles are adjusted to 200 yards. But then, would't rounds go lower?
2. Is there any gentle way to adjust the M41B mount for elevation? I thought that if nothing else works, I might need to shim it. If this is the case, does anyone know where would be the best place to put the shim?
3. There is a screw in the front base portion of the mount, that can be taken out. Does that have anything to do with elevation adjustment?
Thanks in advance.
P.S. Maybe I should cross-post it in Swedish Firearms forum, but I figured it's a sniper....

 

[aeo]

OK, that probably confirms my initial suspiciaon about the rifle being initially sighted to 200 m. Unfortunately it is hard to find a range that would be more than 100 yards around here. Notice that I did not even mention anything about shooting rifle without scope. I shot about 30 rounds with iron sights before I even mounted the scope and had no problems with it whatsoever. Rifle shot straight and accurately. I am afraid that I will have to change the myth about a "small fragile locking screw on the bottom of the mount". I heard about it so many times in regard to M41B that I went with magnifyer glass all over the mount before adjusting anything. This "small locking screw" does not exist! Pictures of the mount are attached! try to find it! It also makes perfect sense. Whay would military design anything with small fragile screw? For a soldier to instantly break in the field? The way it works - you got to loosen screw on one side and move the screw on the opposite side. I suppose you can break the screw head if you don't do it, but you got to be a gorilla to do it.
No, I do not have any books about this rifle. Not that I would trust anything, besides the military service manual written for this rifle. Not sure what you meant by "dismounting range drum". If you mean "taking it apart", I am probably not comfortable with it. I'd rather shim.

 

[Mike Hull]

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?102133-Adjusting-a-AJACK-scope

http://pitgear.com/images/ADJUSTING_AJACK_M41B_SCOPE.pdf

 

[aeo]

MJ, you did answer part of my question, thank you. Do you mean to say that the locking screw is the the Front pivot screw? It is not exactly small.
Mike, Thank YOU! These links are really useful!

 

[swede]

I have never heard anyone talking about a small screw on the M41b mount . The screw holding the lever in place is small ( M3x.5 ) , so maybe that is what they are referring to ? The large screw at the front , bottom is a locking screw for windage adjustment . Actually , only the head is large , as it has a M4x.7 pitch thread . You should loosen it before moving the either of the windage screws . Then lock it back to test fire .

I bought a M41b scope that had a shim under the rear ring , between the scope tube & bottom of the ring . Never mounted it on a rifle before I sold it . So , not sure if it was needed or the guy did not know how to adjust the elevation ?

 

[aeo]

Yes, it did not even occur to me to adjust the windage without loosening the pixot screw first. That is why I was puzzled with the "small locking screw" that everyone mentioned. Pivot screw itself is actually not that small (both head and the screw itself. I would be more afraid to break windage adjustment screws. I might try to adjust the elevation drum, as was suggested. Just gotta be really careful about it. Thank you and thanks again for everyone who replied.

 

[swede]

The windage screws are M3.5 x .6m/m pitch . Still easily stripped if you get heavy handed .

 

[aeo]

OK, I follewed the instructions and worked on the turret. Here anre some pictures and what I found out.... You may be able to ajust elevation (range) using methods described, so long you are not out of the mechanical limits of the scope reticle. And, as I discovered, it was my problem. As you can see on the attached pictures, the single screw (that can be mounted in two positions, using the opposite screw hole), serve as a stopper. It goes against the tiny stopper screw (that I indicated by the yellow arrow) before you force it beyond the mechanical limits of the reticle. If you will, the reticle won't move anyways. I did not try the uppermost limits because the drum will not turn, but at the lower limits, the drum will turn, but nothing happens with the reticle. On pictures 4 and 5 you can see that central square pice on which the range drum sits have it's minumum and maximum heights. These heights are correlated with the lowermost and uppermost positions of the reticle. Reticle simply will not go higher or lower. Mind you, I only used my fingers without applying any force! My problem was that the reticle was already in the uppermost position and rifle was still shooting high. It turns out that my shots would fall above where reticle can physically go on the scope. I think that my only option now is to put a shim under front scope ring. That should fix the problem and then I will be able to re-zero the scope.

 

[swede]

I never got into mine that far . Not all that complicated . If I remember correctly , the one I had with a shim was about 1/4" wide & cut from an aluminum can . Any number of materials can be used . I would prefer plastic that won't scratch the scope . I would put a coating of grease to fill in the gap & keep moisture out . Sounds like you got a plan . Good luck . Good photos as well !!!!!!

 

[aeo]

Yep, thanks. Planning on thin aluminum filed on the edges with silicone grease. I don't trust plastic. It always manage to get squshed or deformed somehow. The important lesson that I learned - there is no way of pushing the scope beyond it's mechanical limits. Scope is simple and rugged too. Good old German manufacturing!
Thanks

 

[aeo]

Either that or need to find a longer range... 200 + ranges are hard to find here

 

[aeo]

Yep, Kentucky windage always work.... In that case would be more of a Kentucky elevation though But the point in all that is that my scope, technically, should have a capacity to be adjusted to 100 meters. Swedish Army manual recommends zero at 300 meters. Meaning that approximately 100 m should be well within the elevationdial adjustments. In my case it turns out that I was out of the adjustment range and had to shim the scope. Hopefully now I can zero it for 100 yards and when opportunity presents itself adjust it properly for 300 m. Now about that sling. I have the original M41B sniper sling. Looks like yours does not have a plastic pad on it... Is the one you have an original M41B sling? The pad on mine dried and crumblerd away. Is that what happened with yours?

 

[swedeM63]

Hi aeo,
looking at your target it seems to show you are about 3" (or say 3MOA) high at 100 yards. If you were adjusting the front blade (for illustration) this change it would only need about 25 thou change.

Shimming one mount ring for that change only needs a very small alteration when you consider the distance between the two scope rings. Probably only between two and four thou (0.002 - 0.004"). You might be better with brass shim stock instead of a drink can.

 

[aeo]

THis piece of brass or aluminum (literally - a glorified foil) is not going to bend the scope tube. Brass maybe a better answer although I am not sure how brass will react with steel over long time period.

 

[swedeM63]

There are two options to shim the side rail mount to lower point of impact (which effectively needs the front ring raised so the rifle barrel is pointing further below the point of aim). The obvious one is to shim the ring itself. The less obvious is to shim the rail pivot point (low possibility of any scope tube stress even assuming the Swedes precisely lapped the rings to fit the scope, which I doubt).

Brass will not react with steel, it has been proven as a machine shim material since the steam age.

aeo, going back to you photos of the scope, can I see image 5782 shows one of the cap screws on the non-serial number side of the mount is not done up the same as the rest? The gap at that screw between cap/base is much higher and it has more threads showing underneath. Is the scope already shimmed or is that cap set incorrectly?

 

[aeo]

I immediately thought about shimming the pivot portion of the mount. Trouble was that I could not take it apart without forcing it to take apart which I absolutely did not want to do. I think that in order to do it, one have to take apart both front and rear portions of the mount. I will look into it again.
As to your question about the picture - I see what you mean. The scope on the picture is not shimmed. Not sure why the screw shows so much thread. It sits correctly. I can remount the scope on the mount and take more pictures.

 

[swede]

There should be no problem removing the front ring from the mount . You need to remove one windage screw first . Then remove the pivot screw . Now , turn the scope sideways out of the dovetail & lift the front ring out of the hole . It should be no problem to cut a small washer from plastic , brass or aluminum shim stock & add it between the front ring base & mount . Then reassemble .

 

[aeo]

OK, it sounded like you guys wanted me to be a guinea pig and do it. I was up to the challenge, so, here are some pictures. First of all, if you ever decide to put shims under the base of the front ring, you need first take a scope tube off the cradle and set it aside. I doubt you will be able to take it out with a scope, especially if it the first time you doing it. Once you take the scope off, the dovetail slides out with relative ease. Most I ever had to do is lightly tap it with a piece of wood. The front base is a different story. It was in there! You have to loosen it a bit by rotating back and fourth. Again, little tapping with a pirece of wood proved to be helpful. The disassembled scope cradle is on one of the attached pictures. Tribute to rugged and reliable Swedish/German engineering! I ended up making an aluminum shim and make sure that it would elevate the front part of the scope enough for what I hhave to deal with. It ended up being a bit thicker than the piece of aluminum can. Then, it was all about cutting a piece, making a hole in the center and placing it in with light (I should say very light) coat of grease. The cradle was then reassembled, scope put back in and everything tightened. Pictures of shimmed cradle attached. You can see a little bit of grease sticking out from underneath where it was shimmed. Oh, I did loose the pivot screw and bore sighted the rifle to 100 yards. Now scope is dead on the center with plenty of elevation adjustment up and down. Just the way it supposed to be. I would almost recommend every M41B owner to the same, as when I took the cradle apart, I cleaned out a good deal of dirt and brownish stuff which turned to be rust-like residue (or maybe all polymerized grease?). The windage adjustments now work much smoother and easier. NOw the BIG question is - Did I pass the "swede" test?

 

[swede]

Good job !!!!!! Now you know the front ring was stuck . Had you moved the windage screw like that , you may have stripped the threads or broken the screw . Very important to make sure the rear ring slides left to right easily , before turning the windage screws . Easy to remove one windage screw & move the rear ring in that direction & then move it back & replace the screw . Repeat with the opposite windage screw .

 

[aeo]

The funny part was that the front ring moved previously when I made the adjustmnts... that is before shimming. It's just that it moves more freely now. When I make adjustments, I usually loosen the windage screws without completely removing them. But all is working even better now!