CMPShooter : Welcome to the forum . You have a good start to a Swedish mauser collection with a M-41 sniper . I have added your AGA M-42 scope serial number to the list above . Thanks for the info . Start another thread & show us your sniper .
While there is no doubt that the M41B's mount base represents a definite improvement over the earlier style of the M41, and I would love to add a nice M41B to my sniper collection, I do find the original M41 rifles to be a lot more interesting, historic, and collectable than the later M41B. I guess much of this is because my primary interest is in WW2 era rifles, particularly sniper rifles. I do prefer those with a combat history - thus the Mosin and 1903A4 rifles in my collection - but the M41 has that appealing combination of Germanic good looks, Nordic quality, and a reputation for accuracy. I just wish that the Swedes would have sent some of these over to Finnland to count coup on the commies, as I think an [SA] marked M41 that fought sniper duels in the snow with Soviet PE and PEM rifles would be nothing short of awesome.
With the M41's German heritage, low production numbers, and relative scarcity compared to the M41B, it surprises me that these rifles are not more valued and sought after. To me, these 1942 to 1945 period rifles are way more desirable and worth a lot more than a rifle put together in 1955. But like I mentioned above, I'm mainly a WW2 sniper collector, not so much a Swede Mauser collector. If it doesn't have a scope on it, to catch my interest a Mauser generally has to have some kind of direct connection to WW1 or WW2, thus preponderance of Kar 98a, 98k, VZ24, Polish, and Spanish Civil War used rifles in my collection. And of course some of those M48 and M48a sniper rifles from the break up of Yugoslavia and the resulting conflicts.
Anyhow, back to the M41's.
My first one is a nice all matching (but the un-numbered cleaning rod) 1906 Carl Gustaf that I got from another member of this site several months back. It was missing the scope and mount setup, but was otherwise in complete and all original sniper configuration. It has an early white metal stock disc marked "K I17 No 115" - any idea what unit this represents? The receiver is drilled and tapped for the mounting screws, locking screws, and the pins. Right after I received this rifle, a member of this forum in Canada offered an AGA M/42 scope with complete mount setup for sale, so I promptly acquired it for my rifle. The base has 1833 stamped on the front, the mount is 1961, and the scope is 1009. The mount fits very tight on the base and does not move far enough back to lock, so obviously this mount and base did not come from the same rifle. As with other good things in life, better too tight than too lose, I say, as it can always be made to fit. The base is interesting, in light of the comments that originally started this thread. It is only drilled for the mounting screws, not the lock screws or the pins, and each mounting screw hole has 5 staking punch marks around it. Another really cool thing about this base is that it lined up perfectly with the holes in the rifle's receiver without any modification necessary, which makes me real happy.
Continuing on this fantastic roll of luck, right after the M/42 scope and mount setup showed up in the mail, I picked up another M41 off Gunbroker. This one is a very nice 1909 CG, again all matching but the un-numbered cleaning rod. This one still has it's original base attached, which was a real bonus. This base has the mounting screws, locking screws, and pins. Unlike the first rifle, this one had the stock disc removed, but is otherwise all complete and original. Since this one has the original base it is just a little more original than the first one, so I've moved the scope and mount over to it. Again, the mount is very tight on the base and does not move far enough back to be locked on, but as with the first base I have left it alone so far.
I guess now I need a mount for the first rifle, as well as a scope. I'd like to find one of the big Ajack scopes for this rifle so I would have representative examples of 2 of the 3 original M41 variations in my collection. Of course, an AGA M/44 scope and mount setup would also be welcome, as would a 3rd M41 rifle to put it on. I would prefer an original, unmodified, Ajack scope for this rifle, but will probably have to settle with one of the M41B modified scopes that show up for sale from time to time. I compared the M/42 scope to the Ajack on a friend's M41B, and the big German scope is definitely a superior and more user friendly, as well as much more impressive, item than the little Swede scope with its lower magnification and smaller field of view. But I still love the vintage AGA too, which is quite unique and very elegant in it's own way.
My M/42 scope is a little cloudy, and I would someday like to have this corrected if possible. Is this fixable, and is there anyone who can be recommended for this job who has the necessary skills and experience to work on a scope like this?
My next step is to acquire some good ammo for these rifles and see what kind of accuracy I can obtain from them, considering my old eyes and deteriorating vision. I'm sure the rifles, with their beautiful bores, are capable of much more than I will be able to achieve with the iron sights. I plan to pick up some of that belted ammo that Samco offers - there is a message thread on the Ammo Forum dealing with Swede 6.5 Mauser ammo that discusses this as well as the boxed ammo that is available. I'd like to have some nice clean boxes of the sniper ammo too, but that green, crusty, corroded looking stuff shown in some of the photos is pretty vile and nasty looking.
Getting back to the price and demand for these original M41 rifles, which I consider (again, as a WW2 sniper collector, not necessarily as a Swede Mauser collector) to be ridiculously low. What's with this? Mind you, I'm not complaining (just the opposite!), just wondering.
As I recall, I paid under $500 for my first rifle, including shipping. The board member I got it from picked it up off Gunbroker for $210 with shipping! He was the only bidder on this rifle; absolutely no one else showed any interest in it. True, it was not listed as a sniper and the description just mentioned that someone had cut the stock and drilled and tapped the rifle for a scope mount. But looking at the photos it was obvious that it was a really nice original M41 rifle. Likewise when he listed it for sale on the Gunboards Trader, no one paid it any attention until I came along, saw it, and decided that (to me, anyhow) it represented a very desirable original WW2 era rifle at a very good price.
The second rifle I picked up off Gunbroker had an opening price of $650, with a $1,300 "Buy It Now" price. I was the only bidder, and with shipping it cost me under $700. I had actually first seen this rifle earlier, when I was researching the first rifle in contemplation of purchasing it and wanted to make sure it was correct and original. Prior to this, my only experience with Swede Mauser snipers was examining a few M41B rifles, owned by my friends, fellow board member Duane "Cap'n Duane" Neese, and Vanessa at Faith Armory in Temecula. Of course, the M41 is a different rifle than the M41B and different rules and standards apply. It was receiving the first rifle and having a know original to compare others to that made me go ahead and pull the trigger on the second one. Once you know what a real one looks like, it makes it much easier to spot and authenticate another one.
I wonder if the fact that most folks are used to M41B rifles and judge all Swede snipers by comparing them to the M41B is the reason for the zero interest and give-away prices on the original M41's? I'm sure that from a strictly shooter point of view the M41B is a better and more desirable rifle than the original M41, but from a WW2 collector point of view I find the M41 to be the more interesting and desirable rifle. Kind of like an 03A4 in Korean War or Viet Nam configuration with an M84 or K4 60-B scope is a better shooter than one with one of the Weaver 330/M73B1 series of scopes, but an all original WW2 configuration example with the tiny and marginal 330 series scope is the rarer and higher dollar rifle.
With shipping, the AGA M/42 scope and mount setup cost me just under $1,500 so I actually have more in the scope and mount than I do in both rifles combined. Yes, I know I could have picked up a complete M41B rifle in outstanding condition for less than I paid just for the scope and mount for the M41, but I have no problems with that. In fact, that's the whole point of it - M41B's are out there, easily available and affordable. Not so the M41. Maybe I just never paid attention to them before, but since I became aware of them I've only seen 2 original M41's offered for sale, and I now own both of them.
Sometime I'll have to see if I can get my resident camera and computer expert (19 year old daughter) to take and post some photos of my rifles. Till then, it sure would be nice if other members of this forum who own original M41 variations could post photos and information on the ones in their collections. Nothing like some good Swedish rifle porn!
Someone post this company that cleans & rebuilds vintage scopes . Could get rid of your cloudy scope ? I do not know of anyone that has used this company , so I cannot recommend them . These AGA scopes are not sealed nor filled with nitrogen , so they are not moisture proof . If you live in humid conditions , the cloudiness will probably return . If there are any damaged parts , there is no supply in Sweden or the USA . The M-44 was supposed to be an improvement over the M-42 model for clarity . However , they are not necessarily all the same . My M-42 is crystal clear & My M-44 is a little cloudy . Personally , I would leave well enough alone , as long as you can see through the scope . Don't fix what ain't broke !!!!!!!!!
ABO ( USA ) , INC.
14041 SW 139th Ct.
Miami , FL. 33186
Sweden did not send armed soldiers to Finland , but did allow them to volunteer , carrying their own or donated rifles . I doubt any Swedish military sniper rifles were in Finland . Here is an example of a volunteer sniper , Evald Petrus Malmström , with a scoped rifle , non-military . A school teacher who was killed in action on Nov. 22 , 1941 on the Hangö line in Finland . We have no idea how many were made up like this , but one of our members has a sniper rifle just like this one .
It is pretty obvious the scope was not meant for that forward mount , as the sniper's cheek is not even resting on the stock . Just a make shift sniper in war time conditions . Better than no sniper rifle .
Well, as has been discussed in another message thread on this forum, I have added another M41 to my collection. This one is a beautiful all-matching, except the cleaning rod, 1910 CG with an AGA M/44 scope.
The scope is NR 432, the base is 7284, and the mount is 7001.
I also have made a deal for another M41 rifle - this one is an 1899 CG that is all matching except the cleaning rod, but is missing the scope and mount setup.
So it looks like I have my M/42 and M/44 scoped rifles, now I just need an original M41 Ajack scope and mount. And another scope and complete mount setup of any of these types will be needed for the 4th rifle.
Up until a few months ago I had never even seen a real M41, only M41B's. Now I own 4 M41's. Pretty cool, says I!
As far as I know , all the 4000 estimated Ajack scopes were updated to "B" model specifications . So , making up a M-41 Ajack sniper will probably be impossible . The closest thing I can suggest is getting a commercial Ajack scope . There is one on the trader now for about $400 . I do not know the seller or anything about the Ajack scope for sale . The choice is up to you . The Ajack scope body is 26 m/m & not compatible with the other AGA rings & mount .
308nutt : Thanks for the info . It is good to know . They have to be extremely RARE . The Swede arsenals could not have missed upgrading many of the Ajack scopes . They even used AGA M-44 scopes on some of the 1955 "B" model rebuilds .
Marcus : I record the AGA scope numbers that I see or those reported by other collectors . So , I believe there are 2 scopes here , #432 & #433 . I don't keep record of who the snipers belong to . I have added #432 to the list of AGA M-44 scopes .
I just bought that AGA M/42 scoped rifle Collector's Firearms has listed for sale, with scope # 761. It looks right to me, and even if it turns out not to be, I figure the scope setup and the base rifle are worth the asking price. I paid around $1,500 for my other M/42 scope and mount setup and around $500 and $700 for my scopeless M41 rifles, so if this latest rifle isn't real, I will just use the scope setup on one of my scopeless rifles.
The AGA M/42 scoped M41 I got from Collector's Firearms showed up today. It is in real nice condition and it is a real M41.
Now having 5 original M41 snipers is an interesting experience that does give one a lot of insight on this particular model and it's common and identifying features as well as things that are unique to each rifle.
I need to get a good digital camera, learn how to use it, and post a series of photos of each rifle here showing these common and individual features here.