[sakorick]

I own 2 interesting M-39's ....I think. The first is a PU marked Sako dated 1941....I thought these were dated for 2 months in 1942? The 2d rifle is a Belgian with the 4600 proof mark on the barrel. What does the 4600 proof mean? Were all the Belgian barrels proofed and why? Regards, Rick.

 

[themosinator]

3600 is the pressure proof mark:

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinRareFinnMarks.htm

http://www.mosinnagant.net/finland/finnish_mosin_nagantm39.asp

I noticed a 3600 pressure proof mark recently on my 1967 "No-maker" m39...

...so, I am assuming at this point that my "No-maker" was made from a scrubbed version of one of those 'B' barrels with the 3600 pressure proof mark?...

 

[sakorick]

Thanks.....but what is the 3600 pressure in KG/Square inch? That is one heck of a lot of pressure. Aren't pressure marked rifles with no manufacture very very rare? Regards, Rick.

 

[themosinator]

...I don't have the info on the actual engineering behind the pressure proof marking...only know that's what the marking means...

...I have also heard that my late-date "no-maker" is a bit of a rarity with the 3600 pressure proof mark on it, but I can't seem to find any supporting documentation, nor any threads (I stink at using the search feature here on the boards!!)...

...but...of course...I HOPE that you're correct!!!...

 

[sakorick]

...I don't have the info on the actual engineering behind the pressure proof marking...only know that's what the marking means...

...I have also heard that my late-date "no-maker" is a bit of a rarity with the 3600 pressure proof mark on it, but I can't seem to find any supporting documentation, nor any threads (I stink at using the search feature here on the boards!!)...

...but...of course...I HOPE that you're correct!!!...

It's a 7 on a 1 to 10 scale.....pretty rare! Regards, Rick. http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinRarity.htm

 

[themosinator]

...oh...yeah...the 'rarity scale'...I have seen that...just forgot about it, and haven't looked in awhile...

Thanks for the post-n-reminder!!!!... :thumbsup:

 

[themosinator]

...what I wonder is:

based upon the location of your 3600 Pressure proof mark, mine, and others I have seen...it appears that my "no-maker" m39 might have been a 'B' barrel before it was scrubbed...but, that is just a postulation on my part...

...has anybody seen anything like what I am talking about before?...

 

[themosinator]

...sorry to steal your thread Rick!!...

Your m39s are both really nice examples with some cool and interesting quirks!!...NICE!!...

...have you shot them yet?...

 

[sakorick]

Yes I have and all my M39's outshoot just about everything else out there.

Now to get back to my original questions....The first is a PU marked Sako dated 1941....I thought these were dated for 2 months in 1942? The 2d rifle is a Belgian with the 4600 proof mark on the barrel. What does the 4600 proof mean in terms of pressure? Were all the Belgian barrels proofed and why? Regards, Rick. . Regards, Rick.

 

[curly1]

You have some really nice wood on them.

 

[themosinator]

Yes I have and all my M39's outshoot just about everything else out there.

Now to get back to my original questions....The first is a PU marked Sako dated 1941....I thought these were dated for 2 months in 1942? The 2d rifle is a Belgian with the 4600 proof mark on the barrel. What does the 4600 proof mean in terms of pressure? Were all the Belgian barrels proofed and why? Regards, Rick. . Regards, Rick.

Is it my eyes?, or is your "B" barrel marked 3600?

 

[sakorick]

Is it my eyes?, or is your "B" barrel marked 3600?

Yes, the Belgian barrel is marked 3600......I guess that's what started the whole thing. Regards, Rick.

 

[strangeways]

The 3600 pressure proofing mark refers to 3600 times standard atmospheric pressure at sea level or 3600 times 14.7 lbs/square inch. So these rifles have been proofed to 52,920 lbs/square inch.
They are tough customers and imo can take a lot more.

 

[themosinator]

Sakorick...3600 stands for 3600 atmospheres (52,884 psi)

From: Rifles of the White Death; Doug Bowser, 1998

Plus!!...I read in the same book that the 36.00 or 3600 High pressure proof markings existed specifically on "B" marked m39 rifles dated 1942 (like yours!!)...which means, indirectly, that my 1967 "no-maker" m39 once had a 1942 "B" marked barrel prior to being scrubbed by the Finns!!...(the other pressure proof markings from other arsenals have the arsenal cartouche between the 36 and the 00)

...(this is, of course, if D.Bowser's information is accurate)...


I hope this helps and clarifies your original question in your OP!!...

 

[sakorick]

Thanks guys......that makes good sense. Now the next question about why my PU Sako is dated 1941 still needs an answer. I assume that some late numbered 1941 rifles were stamped POLUSTUSLAITOS and the first two months of 1942 were also so stamped. Is this correct? If so, is there a number out there or was this a case of some got it and some didn't? Regards, Rick.

 

[Flyin Brian]

Rick, I have quite a list of SAKO M39s and the earliest PL is around 203250 and the latest is 209690. Based on that number there are probably at most 6,400 PL marked M39s but mixed in the data here and there are quite a few that are not PL marked. I have data on 120 rifles in that range and 18 are not PL marked so that narrows it down a bit.

I don't show any 1942 SAKOs with the PL mark. The 1941 dated rifles go all the way to 21752X so the answer to your question on why these 1941 dated rifles were PL marked when the stamp was used in 1942 remains a mystery to me. It would seem maybe these barrels were made in 1941 but not assembled into rifles until 1942 and this range of 6000 were still in the armory when the order came out to stamp the PL marking? Who knows. It's also odd that there are some that didn't get stamped... maybe they had already been shipped to the smaller armories in the field and then the order came to stamp them?

 

[sakorick]

Rick, I have quite a list of SAKO M39s and the earliest PL is around 203250 and the latest is 209690. Based on that number there are probably at most 6,400 PL marked M39s but mixed in the data here and there are quite a few that are not PL marked. I have data on 120 rifles in that range and 18 are not PL marked so that narrows it down a bit.

I don't show any 1942 SAKOs with the PL mark. The 1941 dated rifles go all the way to 21752X so the answer to your question on why these 1941 dated rifles were PL marked when the stamp was used in 1942 remains a mystery to me. It would seem maybe these barrels were made in 1941 but not assembled into rifles until 1942 and this range of 6000 were still in the armory when the order came out to stamp the PL marking? Who knows. It's also odd that there are some that didn't get stamped... maybe they had already been shipped to the smaller armories in the field and then the order came to stamp them?

Hello Brian.......the best recap on a complex issue that I have read. I tend to agree with your educated guess. After all, it was wartime and things happened that are beyond our understanding. Regards, Rick.

 

[v i t]

Those are some very nice M39's.

 

[F2G-1]

The correct engineering unit is bars.

 

[tuco In Memoriam]

Rifle was just property stamped later. You see this now & again. Nice rifles
The barrels were not property stamped when produced as they were stamped later once assembled.