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Discussion Starter #1
While reading an article explaining the history of the Finn M27 Rifle, there are sentences that read:
"One minor modification of the M/91 bolt was also undertaken. The connecting bar for the bolt head & body was replaced by a Finnish version with two small "wings" on the rear of the bolt. These "wings" or guides fit into corresponding slots cut into the rear of the receiver where the bolt was inserted. This addition was supposed to stabilize the bolt and improve the loading of cartridges by keeping th bolt in a more stabilized parallel position".
I have one of these rifles with the modified bolt.
I see no difference in operation between the modified & unmodified bolts when feeding rounds into the chamber. The wings don't engage the slots until the bolt is locked in battery.
Where I DO see a difference between modified & unmodified bolts is when the trigger is slowly squeezed. Here, the "wings" prevent the cocking piece from being pulled or torqued downward, resulting in a sweeter trigger pull.
Am I missing something in the published explanation?
To me, these "wings" seem to be part of the trigger enhancement improvements developed by the Finnish armorers.
 

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IMO, you are correct.
 

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I also read that some story a year or two ago. I guess somebody guessed wrong. I hate to rain on someone party, but if you load a round into a M-27's chamber, you will see that the cartridge is 90% loaded into the chamber before the WINGS even make contact with the receiver.
I think the Finn's back in the early 1930's were trying to improve the trigger pull, and a altered cocking piece might help out. I have some M-27's in my collection that have the rear of the receiver pinched down on the top part, also to stablize the cocking piece.
This modification is probably simplier, and cheaper, with the bolt completely interchangable with all othe Finnish assembled rifles.
If dirt gets into the grooves on the receiver, you rifle might not fire. Possibly that's why that modification was only done for a short period of time.
Alko
 

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Mr. Flashy Pants
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I've never really thought about why it was done other than to make everything fit together more consistently. I think you're probably more correct than the article you quote. Of course the trade off was in reliability and whatever the intention it was determined that it wasn't worth the problems it caused and it was dropped.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Many thanks to all for the positive replies.
I have found all of the articles on the Mosin sites to be very informative, & very enjoyable to read. I commend the owners for thier patience & tolerance & all those that have contributed thier hard earned information for all the world to see!
As a Mosin addict, I just cannot seem to tear myself away from your pages.
The barriers of time, lives & distance seem to obscure the many reasons why these rifles were made & modified the way we receive them today.
Many collectors will spend the rest of thier lives trying to correctly answer the questions presented to them.
Having stumbled upon a new rifle(to me)(the M27), I developed new questions, & had to learn from your great sites, which then led me to more questions! I just thought I had missed something in the interpretation.
Again, many thanks!
 

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The winged mod ended between 66667 and 66732, and I agree it was for cocking piece stabilization and more consistent trigger pull.

regards
badger
 

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The winged mod ended between 66667 and 66732, and I agree it was for cocking piece stabilization and more consistent trigger pull.

regards
badger
I disagree. I have a 1934 Tikka M27 with a winged bolt connector and it's serial number is 78370
 

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I also disagree but unlike Mike I do not have the serial numbers and all pertinent info on my rifles tatooed on my arm.

:D

It's a great fashion statement though.
 

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Since the modification is basically limited to the reciever and bolt guide, there is no way to state anything definitive about when it started or ended. I know from first hand experience that the earlier number had the mod and the later number did not. I think they were both 1932 recievers. Its possible you could see the mod on a 1970 M39.

regards
badger
 

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I have a Tikka 91-30 with the receiver modification, of course it was a recycled receiver....
The M27 I own has the modification, but the connecting bar does not have the "wings"..=+(
I once had a bubba'd M27 that had the connecting bar with "wings", still waiting to find something decent to trade so Gil will sell or trade it back to me =+)


Pahtu.
 

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Could it be that the modification was tied to a certain date or time period rather than a block of serial numbers? For the first U.S. government contract (Navy) in 1928, Thompson randomly pulled M1921's from the remaining inventory for conversion to M1928 specs. There was no "block" of serial numbers that could be tied to the mod. Also, could some of the M27 Finns previously produced have been retrofitted? As collectors, we like things in neat little packages so that we can make static and factual determinations. It is not always so.

It makes more sense to me that the modification was done to mechanically improve trigger/sear action and make it more consistent - having nothing to do with the stripping and feeding of a round. I also read somewhere that mod was discontinued because the grooves may (or did) clog with ice or trash and then would prevent the bolt from comming to battery. An excellent idea that was just too tight in tolerance to allow reliable functioning in battlefield conditions. DDR
 

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The modification to the receiver, and bolt head connecting part, most likely to improve trigger pull, [ all Finnish rifles assembled with the exception of M-91, and M-91/30's had improvements to improve trigger pull] had NOTHONG to do with the barrel serial number and barrel date.
Mr. Palokangas writes in his excellent 3 vol. set: the date on the barrel, and serial number had nothing to do with the M-27 rifle rebuild date. The barrels were serial numbered, and dated at the time of there manufature, and assembly was done at the army depot, some times years after the barrel was manufactured.
So if the improvement was implemented, summer of 1932 [I'm really guessing] and lasted for 2 years, you can find that modification on a barel dated 1927 untill 1934.
If a M-27 was scraped, and the receiver recycled into a M-28, M-28/30, M-39, M-91, or M-91/30, that receiver might have the 2 milled out slots from the assembly years before.
Like I stated earlier, in my collection I have several M-27's with the split part of the rear of the receiver bridge crimped or squeezed down to limit cocking piece wobble. That should improve trigger pull, and much easier and cheaper to implement.
 

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From Alko:

"The modification to the receiver, and bolt head connecting part, most likely to improve trigger pull, [ all Finnish rifles assembled with the exception of M-91, and M-91/30's had improvements to improve trigger pull] had NOTHONG to do with the barrel serial number and barrel date.
Mr. Palokangas writes in his excellent 3 vol. set: the date on the barrel, and serial number had nothing to do with the M-27 rifle rebuild date. The barrels were serial numbered, and dated at the time of there manufature, and assembly was done at the army depot, some times years after the barrel was manufactured.
So if the improvement was implemented, summer of 1932 [I'm really guessing] and lasted for 2 years, you can find that modification on a barel dated 1927 untill 1934."

That is what I was trying to say, but I had no information from Mr. Palokangas to back me up - just speculation from a similar circumstance. Thanks, Alko! DDR
 
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