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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have already told most of the story of how I helped out a friend today by basically buying his entire small milsurp rifle collection. He is moving to Europe and will not be able to take them with him. also he wanted to leave "clean' and to pay off his bills before going. So he approached me and asked if I would buy them from him. I have bought a lot of rifles in the past few weeks, so gun money was fast becoming scarce. But - he is a friend and needed help. I "dug deep" and agreed.


I had only ever seen one of his rifles and that was just briefly when he beat me to the punch at what was essentially an Estate Sale. That rifle I wanted even though I knew even less about Mosins at the time than I do now. I was able to see it from 10 feet and only for about one minute. But that memory stuck with me. The only way to get to it would be to buy the whole collection, sell off what I can't use, and be left with an antique Mosin Nagant M91. When we discussed the sale of the collection he told me that rifle would be part of it. it was allegedly an 1895 M91, and he claimed it was unmodified and not refurbed in the conversation. Also that it was all matching.


Wrong on many accounts. Last night I got one picture taken at a distance of probably 15 feet. very little detail was there. But it was enough for me to email the shot to a couple of collector friends of mine. One very knowledgeable guy informed me that it had in fact been modified by adding the newer type barrel bands, and of course the Konovalov rear sight. oh well...I already made the commitment to buy. So I went and picked up the 15 or so rifles this morning. The first rifle he showed me was the "Rampant Lion' crest VZ24. Guess what? No crest. It was scrubbed. Second rifles were the two M44s. Both had mismatched bolts as I described in that thread. At that point, I just stopped looking and started loading them in the truck.

I got home and unloaded the guns. Most are actually really nice. The mismatched M91 that I had wanted so badly thpugh...I stuck in the corner. I just didn't even want to look at it because I just knew that the more I looked, the worse it would be.

I was wrong.

After a couple of hours, one of the experts here sent me a text to ask how things had gone with the purchase. I picked up that M-91 prepared to bare my soul and tell him how disgusted I was with myself for doing this deal. But on closer look, the bolt was mismatched. I started seeing "Finn" again like on the Balkan rifle I bought recently. Stupid, I say to myself. But the barrel shank. hmmm. 1893, not 1895. Things were looking better. I swear I hesitated a moment before looking at the side of the barrel shank. When I did, there it was. An SA in a box. then I looked at the rear sight. Finn modded. Then at the rest. I was just plain so excited that I could hardly type the text reply. I snapped a photo of the barrel shank and "shared" it. Finn!


1893.

I am pretty excited about this rifle. it may be the pinnacle of what I have found so far, and it was - a mistake. My newest Finn is also my oldest one.


 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
More photos. It also came with what is purportedly its original sling and dog collar attachments as well. of course there is no way to know that but they are very old. It is NOT import marked either.

Thanks for looking.
 

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nice 1893, that has been heavily updated and standardized by either the Russian military and/or the Finnish military. Even so.. 1893s of any type are hard to find, so its a good score.

This is what it would have looked like new :

2nonoshortmagazine and
front band
conf. 1originalnonenoneJune 4,
1893
C, T, I, S
Dropped finger rest​
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yes, 1893. is there any way to tell when the Finns acquired it or modified it? Oh I forgot. The bore is mint.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Makes sense. My M91 AV3 Finn doesn't have the SA mark. Plus the Finns weren't a nation until the war was almost over anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks Spaxspore. I appreciate the information. Just wish I had your photography skills. It is nicer than my cell phone photos show it to be.
doby
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Aye thats why sparked my interest into improving my picture taking ability. I wanted to be able to capture and share what the rifle actually looks like if it was in front of me. Especially after seeing some folks pictures here on the forums.
Armslist is the worst here. The sellers never have any light and only show a dark, unfocused photo of part of the rifle, lol.
 

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Doby, that is an awesome rifle! I have it's slightly older relative only 1350 rifles away. I wonder if there may have been a serial number range Where these were sent to the Balkans as aid. For a minute, I thought this was an old resurrected thread of my 1893 Tula that I never saw from before. But after more close examination, they appear to be close relatives. A very nice crown stamped in to the barrel shank at the top right. Also direct your attention to the right side shank, at the stock line and observe the other crown over presumed letter/symbol. Mine is Serb C marked. Looks like they both must have spent some time there. Yours it looks like, based on the rear sight, which has has it's graduations added in meters on the right side, and notched at it's lowest setting is a Finn trait. Not impossible this rifle wasn't sold to the Finns in the 1920s. Here are a few pics for comparison, I hope you don't mind. Also if you get the chance, does yours have the "grease port" on the receiver too? Awesome rifle, congrats!

Was actually just reviewing this article yesterday as I found a neat BerdanII with a Crown over T mark. Check this article out if you haven't yet! Our very own JPS co-authored it. http://www.mosinnagant.net/global mosin nagants/serbmosin.asp







 

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The rifle is nice, and has some interesting travel evidence.

Now, the trick will be spotting the same [SA] stamp or other Finn evidence on those two mis-matched M44's. That would really be something!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The rifle is nice, and has some interesting travel evidence.

Now, the trick will be spotting the same [SA] stamp or other Finn evidence on those two mis-matched M44's. That would really be something!
LOL, if that happened you guys would be sure I had bought a stamp set! And you'd be right!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·


I don't see a grease port Iron Colonel, but then again I am not sure exactly what one would look like in any case. Yes, I do have that same mark as yours on the right. It is just at the wood line. In front of it is another a small mark but I have not yet been able to get it to photograph. Here are more photos of that area. A little better light in my office this morning than outside last night.



Doby, that is an awesome rifle! I have it's slightly older relative only 1350 rifles away. I wonder if there may have been a serial number range Where these were sent to the Balkans as aid. For a minute, I thought this was an old resurrected thread of my 1893 Tula that I never saw from before. But after more close examination, they appear to be close relatives. A very nice crown stamped in to the barrel shank at the top right. Also direct your attention to the right side shank, at the stock line and observe the other crown over presumed letter/symbol. Mine is Serb C marked. Looks like they both must have spent some time there. Yours it looks like, based on the rear sight, which has has it's graduations added in meters on the right side, and notched at it's lowest setting is a Finn trait. Not impossible this rifle wasn't sold to the Finns in the 1920s. Here are a few pics for comparison, I hope you don't mind. Also if you get the chance, does yours have the "grease port" on the receiver too? Awesome rifle, congrats!

Was actually just reviewing this article yesterday as I found a neat BerdanII with a Crown over T mark. Check this article out if you haven't yet! Our very own JPS co-authored it. http://www.mosinnagant.net/global mosin nagants/serbmosin.asp







 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Yes I did yesterday. I was not looking for the port, but the receiver does match the barrel, so it may be there. I'll have it apart again this weekend and let you know...Oh, mine isn't import marked anywhere on it. Is yours SA marked as well? If so I missed that in your posts. I just wonder if the rifles may have traveled from Russia to Serbia to Finland to America together. They seem almost twins as to condition. By the way, what may look like rust on the bolt appears to be the Finn preservative on it. There's no rust anywhere, even under the barrel and receiver. Someone did a good job in caring for it at the arsenal. I'm also Very surprised at the bore on mine. Amazing. The Russians, Serbs, and Finns all took better care of this thing for the past 121 years better than an American bubba does in three months.
 
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