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Reincarnation...
Printed from: Gunboards
Topic URL: http://old.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=41012
Printed on: 09/11/2007
Topic:
Topic author: Pettson
Subject: Reincarnation...
Posted on: 05/03/2004 06:02:30 AM
Message:

A project that is near completion. Still some sanding of the wood to do, and some finishing.

Case colours turned out a bit, hmm, lively, but not to bad for a first attempt I think. Actually, it was not my first attempt, but the first half decent one. I've done some practice runs on scrap shotgun and RB actions.

This is the third reincarnation stage for this action. It started it's life as an m/1867 rifle, was converted to 8 mm in 1891, and sporterized by Vapendepoten in the 40's or 50's.

The new barrel is chambered for .45-90. I've made a Hellqvist look-alike peep sight for it.
I have also fitted a later date safety hammer and made a new extractor and pivot pins from suitable modern steel.

OK, so I'm a Bubba! The alternative for this rifle would have been the hacksaw and the furnace... This way it will hopefully be kept in circulation for a few more years. If it shoots that is...

Pettson



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Replies:
Reply author: Ken
Replied on: 05/04/2004 04:49:31 AM
Message:

Nice case colors, what process did you use?
Reply author: Pettson
Replied on: 05/05/2004 04:17:17 AM
Message:

Thanks. I'm not happy about those small pink areas though. haven't quite figured out how to get rid of that yet.

Process is the traditional one I guess;
Carburizing by packing the parts in carbon-rich material, heating and holding at hardening temperature for a set time, followed by quenching them in water.

I tried an old fashioned recipe for lacquering the parts. A homemade mixture of white spirits, linseed oil and spar varnish. Looks OK, but I don't know yet how well it will wear.

Pettson
Reply author: kriggevaer
Replied on: 02/06/2005 01:32:10 AM
Message:

When I saw this post a few months ago, it set some wheels spinning and because of some email discussions with some forum friends I decided to try a reincarnation of my own. I've got a Carl Gustaf m/89 coming from KebcoLLC that needs some attention, but after what Ken told me it about it, it will be a good rifle to bring back to glory. I'm already set up to reload 8x58R Danish, so I will give the rifle a workout in that caliber before I get into rebarrel/new caliber. My question is, what would be a historically accurate diopter/aperture sight for this rifle? The rifle should get to me week after next and I will post some pictures. Pettson's case colours are pretty inspiring.
Reply author: Pettson
Replied on: 02/10/2005 07:17:51 AM
Message:

Interesting project, keep us posted!
The 8mm makes a decent hunting cartridge. By sticking to the original chambering you could save some money for other parts of the project... On the other hand, there is nothing quite like a .45 hole in the muzzle... Or a .450, if you want to take the imperial route...


The proper sight would be a vintage Swiss "shuetzen" sight... Or a Lyman tang sight, like no. 1A. At one time, Husqvarna imported and marketed Lyman sights. Although they were mainly used on target guns and .22's, They woudn't look out of place on a rolling block.
I have also seen a couple of model 33's with what was probably factory installed Lyman sights.

For my rifle, I copied the Hellqvist design. Perhaps not entirely period correct, but slick...

Pettson
Reply author: kriggevaer
Replied on: 02/14/2005 11:25:12 PM
Message:

My Carl Gustaf 8x58RD Rolling Block arrived today
I knew Ken Buch would send me a good one, but I wasn't sure just exactly what that would be. Well, I was not disappointed and the rifle I got has a lot of potential and a lot of character. Maybe a little too much character

As you can see, the buttstock has been cut short by a considerable amount, but overall the rifle is in very good condition. The bore is dirty, but the rifling is strong and deep. All visible numbers match.

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The rifle was manufactured in 1870 and converted in 1891, I think. Someone help me out if I have that wrong. This is my first rolling block. The numeral 1891 is also stamped into the right hand side of the stock wrist.

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A very rare and unique custom cartridge carrier

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And, it was obviously used by a successful hunter. Five notches in the stock wrist. They are large notches, so I suspect they represent five moose!

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The guard screws (hammer and breech block guard screws) need to be replaced and if anyone has a source for these screws I would appreciate the information very much. The front sight hood is also missing, so I will need a new one. The blueing is in excellent condition and I don't have the skills that Pettson has in case coloring, so for now this will stay as it is. The buttstock and forearm are the biggest modifications I have to make. Several brass nails were used to secure the custom cartridge carrier and so now there are holes in the forearm and the buttstock was chopped pretty drastically. I have a stockmaker who will create a new forearm and buttstock for me. Any ideas on the style of these pieces would be appreciated
So, I actually do not have much to do to get this rifle into good shooting condition once again. Any ideas, suggestions, guidance - it will all be accepted graciously. Mange Tak!

Reply author: Balltip
Replied on: 02/19/2005 3:51:15 PM
Message:

Awwwwwww Pettson! You really should tell all the fellas a few more details! Like the full story about "the triggerguard from hell", some first experiences with color case hardening (this rolling block never quite qualified to go under the name "pink lady") and some finer details about the barrel...


Just to fill you all in I can tell that after having worked up a sweat making the barrel blank look like a dream (he milled it down from round to octagonal) he discovered - after 3 boils in the blueing tank - that Lothar Walter had managed not to send him a chrome moly one (as ordered), but stainless barrel

Yeah...! Only fella I know that has a stainless steel barrel on a rolling block lmao!

Per


Per
Reply author: Pettson
Replied on: 02/22/2005 08:47:26 AM
Message:

Good one! I really love those cartridge carriers! Now there's a rifle with some real history to it!

Making a good sporter stock for this action is interesting, if you intend to keep the original tang configuration.
The difficult thing is to get a comb that is high enough, while still retaining decent lines... And I guess you don't want to start altering the tangs?
I've tried a swan neck thingy on mine, but dropped that idea. I don't really like swan necks in the first place, and on this squarish action it looks even worse...
Some kind of roll over comb is what I'm trying now. I'll try to post some pictures later. The project is a bit on the backburner now, still got the house chores hanging over me, and I am also trying to complete a couple of other projects...

JK has posted some pictures of an interesting m/67-89 conversion. They can be seen in the RB picture post in the military forum;
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37578

As Balltip insinuates, this has been an interesting project right from the start... The number of grey hairs did increase to a level where I decided I might as well start shaving my head...
First off was TIG welding some pores in the triggerguard. That little project took a week, and inspired a song titled "The Triggerguard From Hell"... Modern welding techniques are not always compatlble with 19th century metallurgy...

After my first attempts at case hardening, mainly on scrapped HVA shotgun actions, some of my so called friends were threatening my project with names such as "Pink Lady", and "The Lady Gun".
In the end I got rid of most of those pink colours. You can see some traces of it on this action also.

And finally, the barrel... Some serious octagonal milling took place, with integral narrow quarter rib, front sight base and whatnot... I started to get suspicious when not even the third C13 coat showed much colour on the barrel. A simple analysis showed large amounts of chrome... Wow! For all that work, and just to end up with a nice traditional custom rolling block wearing a stainless steel barrel. Hahahah... Boy, am I glad I can finally laugh about that wreck...

Pettson
Reply author: Balltip
Replied on: 02/22/2005 12:47:13 PM
Message:

Hrmm... As I recall it, Pettsons attempts to TIG weld that trigger guard went something like this; He came back from the weldig boot, started to file off excess material - and went "AAAARRRHHHH!!!"
Then he dissapeared, came back maybe half an hour later, and started to file off excess material again - went "AAAAARRRRHHHHHAAAHHH!!!!!", went back to the boot again, came back....

And so on. For a week. At least...!

For the first 2 days I just laughed. But as time passed I started to suffer with him - honest! But I still ain't heard that song, but one day... Hey man! Remember to bring ur old guitarr next time u come round will ya?!
Reply author: kriggevaer
Replied on: 02/23/2005 12:00:21 AM
Message:

Yes, this svensk rolling block has a lot of character and history and I will not throw away the forestock and buttstock. It is unfortunate that I will probably never know the hunter who carried this rifle. There is an arsenal sticker on the buttstock indicating that it was inspected in 1976. I got the bore cleaned up nicely and the rifling looks very good. A pit here and there, but strong. If it does not shoot well the way it is, I will fire lap the bore and see what happens. I am still thinking about what kind of stock I should make for it and have found a great website here in the USA, www.treebonecarving.com, makes a lot of rolling block stocks and I pirated some pictures from that site. What do you think of this style??


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Here are some other styles from the same website,


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I like JK's rifle very much, but I had in mind for this first rolling block, more of a hunting rifle. May a schuetzen for a future project! I would like to leave the tang in its original condition. I do get a little nervous heating and shaping this old metal and would be afraid I would break something. It is good Swedish steel, but it is also 130 years old! But, Pettson is now the master of case colouring, welding and blueing of stainless steel and I will follow his advice, without question
Reply author: Pettson
Replied on: 03/03/2005 12:32:50 PM
Message:

The bottom stock is of the type of shape I discarded, becauser I didn't like how it worked with the lines of the action. But that's just my opinion, so don't let that put you off if you like the design.
The advantage is that is raises the comb to decent height. I'm doing some kind of rollover style (I think!). I'll try to do a picture of it.

Here is the rear sight I'm using;

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It is homemade, but a shameless rip-off of the old Hellqvist design, adjustable (albeit crudely) for both windage and elevation.

Pettson
Reply author: kriggevaer
Replied on: 03/06/2005 12:20:47 AM
Message:

I'm still undecided on the style of buttstock to use. Actually, the original buttstock seems to fit me quite well and mounting and sighting the rifle is almost a single move. I do like your Hellqvist sight and wish I had the fabrication skills to do something like that. I've decided against a tang sight because it interferes with my grip and stock weld. A friend lent me one of his reproduction Soule type sights and I ran tape around it and the stock wrist to position it on my rifle. I have also decided to use this rifle in a deer hunt this autumn, so I need to get busy developing loads and testing them.
Reply author: Pettson
Replied on: 03/07/2005 09:16:25 AM
Message:

What is that Soule type sight? Have you got a picture or a link to one perhaps? Interested in seeing what it looks like.

Meanwhile... Here is yet another picture, to show the basic profile of the stock and forend (not quite finished yet, as mentioned before);

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Pettson

Reply author: kriggevaer
Replied on: 03/12/2005 12:36:10 AM
Message:

Nice stock - it will look very good when you put the final touches to it. Soule style sights are very popular over here for the black powder cartridge silhouette shooters, but the price of them will give you chills. The sight prices range from $250-450USD, although Pedersoli makes some in the $100-200USD range. These are some examples I got off the www.buffaloarms.comwebsite.

A long range Soule sight manufactured by Baldwin.

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A mid-range Baldwin Soule sight.

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A Ukranian manufactured short range Soule sight.

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The Soule style sights have very generous windage and elevation adjustment and are usually more precise than the Lyman and Marble type tang sights. I am still studying various types of sights, but as I mentioned before, the tang mounted sights interfere with my grip on the stock wrist. Because my rifle will be more for hunting than target shooting I am going to use something like your Hellqvist type.
Reply author: Pettson
Replied on: 03/16/2005 08:12:07 AM
Message:

Thanks for the pictures kriggevær. Beautiful sights, and another thing to dream of... The cost might indeed prove a bit prohibitive for me though.

Pettson
Reply author: kriggevaer
Replied on: 03/17/2005 12:40:11 PM
Message:

Hej Pettson,
Yes, very nice sights, but like you, I find the cost more than I want to pay. Odd isn't it, that the prices of top-of-the-line target sights such as Centra, RPA, Gehmann, etc. are less than these Soule type sights. Well, the market determines the price and there is a lot of hand finishing on these sights by the makers. Anyway, I've fallen victim to the "collector sentimentality syndrome" The dreaded "CSS". My rolling block has so much character I can't bear to modify anything on it. Every time I pick it up, I have visions of a lone svensk jakt stalking through the birch and spruce, looking for a stor alg to raise its great head above the willows. So there is only one solution to this painful dilemma - Call Ken Buch and buy another rolling block that I won't be so impressed with!!
Maybe just a barreled action that I can start from scratch with. .45-90 you say, very interesting!
Reply author: kriggevaer
Replied on: 05/20/2005 10:29:59 PM
Message:

I did it - I have another rolling block coming from Ken Buch. This one is a 12mm and I am very excited about it. Anyone that has some good starting loads for the 12mm, I would appreciate the info. Pettson, how is your project coming along?
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Re-stocked 8x58RD Rolling Block Sporter

Re-stocked 8x58RD Rolling Block Sporter
Printed from: Gunboards
Topic URL: http://old.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=209962
Printed on: 09/11/2007
Topic:
Topic author: Dutchman
Subject: Re-stocked 8x58RD Rolling Block Sporter
Posted on: 02/08/2007 5:16:28 PM
Message:

Sorry for the poor photos. Its raining outside today. I'll re-shoot them when I can.

This 8mm sporter was re-stocked by a friend in Ohio using very fancy fiddleback walnut. It comes to the shoulder very nice. The Mables tang sight I installed before he took it. I'll have to remove the express sight as it interferes with the sight picture.

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Dutchman
Replies:
Reply author: rudybolla
Replied on: 02/08/2007 7:40:23 PM
Message:

Pretty. I love Swedish rollers!
Reply author: Spanner
Replied on: 02/09/2007 02:34:12 AM
Message:

Excellent wood on that one. This a picture of my sporter that I re-stocked with a Treebone Carving factory 2nd stock, then rust blued the barrel/butt plate. Ken Buch found a military rear sight and I replaced the simple sporter rear sight with it. I have a Lyman globe sight on front.

Tom

Reply author: Dutchman
Replied on: 02/10/2007 01:29:35 AM
Message:

quote:Originally posted by Spanner

This a picture of my sporter that I re-stocked with a Treebone Carving factory 2nd stock, Tom


I like the look of your rifle. Nice lines.

Dutchman
Reply author: Ordtech
Replied on: 02/10/2007 11:50:28 PM
Message:

Need a napkin, I'm drooling!
Reply author: Ordtech
Replied on: 02/10/2007 11:53:29 PM
Message:

Spanner, what did you finish your stock with? It's beautiful and the warm tone and shaping are so much like a 19th century stock. It's got that amberish-red I love so much.
Dennis
Reply author: Spanner
Replied on: 02/11/2007 12:54:22 AM
Message:

I used plain 'ol Tru-Oil on the stock - no stain. The first few coats were thinned with mineral spirits to let it soak into the stock better. Then, wet-sanded with the same reduced Tru-Oil and wiped down. The lighting makes it look a little redder than it actually is.
I used the Treebone Carving crescent pattern for the buttstock and the Schnabbel (sic) foreend.

http://www.treebonecarving.com/id5.html

Let me tell you, that metal crescent buttplate will hurt you with even moderate jacketed loads. Its profile doesn't match the shape of my shoulder at all. I just shoot it now with mild cast loads.
I'll starting another thread with some more pictures of the rifle rather than highjack Dutchman's thread.

Tom




Reply author: Pettson
Replied on: 02/22/2007 07:03:50 AM
Message:

Ouch! Nice pieces both!

Pettson
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
More pics of my Rolling Block sporter

More pics of my Rolling Block sporter
Printed from: Gunboards
Topic URL: http://old.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=210433
Printed on: 09/11/2007
Topic:
Topic author: Spanner
Subject: More pics of my Rolling Block sporter
Posted on: 02/11/2007 12:57:55 AM
Message:

Here are three pictures of my Rolling Block sporter that I talked about in Dutchman's thread.

Tom





Replies:
Reply author: Theoxrojo
Replied on: 02/11/2007 10:12:10 AM
Message:

Yes, very sweet. Which grade of walnut is that from Treebone, standard or standard select? Thanks for mentioning in the other thread about the recoil issues with this style of butt plate. Although I love the look, I believe I'll stay with the shotgun type butt stock if I install new wood.
Reply author: Spanner
Replied on: 02/11/2007 1:38:32 PM
Message:

The buttstock was a factory 2nd, but the foreend was standard grade to enable Treebone to match the color. There were some small checks or pinholes on the left side, but nothing obvious and they filled easily when I was finishing the stock.

Tom
Reply author: JK
Replied on: 02/11/2007 9:49:11 PM
Message:

Very nice looking rifle Spanner!

I have been using black powder in mine, seeing that the cartridge was originally filled with that stuff. Makes it a lot easier on the shoulder too with my Schuetzen style butt-plate.

Regards, John
Reply author: Dutchman
Replied on: 02/12/2007 01:44:47 AM
Message:

I collected photos of vintage rolling blocks to get an idea of what I wanted. This rifle was sold on Gunbroker early last year. I really liked the overall shape but I've fired cresent butt rifles before and I don't know how the old timers put up with them. They WILL beat the heck out of your shoulder bone in short order. So I opted for the checkered steel flat buttplate. I shoot only cast bullet loads in my 1889 8mm rifle so its not a biggy.

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Dutchman
Reply author: Pettson
Replied on: 02/22/2007 07:22:20 AM
Message:

How close to finished appearance are the Treebone Carving stocks? Is there plenty of material left for inletting?
Nice rifle!

Pettson
Reply author: Spanner
Replied on: 02/22/2007 5:31:38 PM
Message:

Thanks for the compliments. The factory inletting and shaping on the stock and foreend was very good. It took very little effort to inlet and finish the stock. I kept the original barrel, and had to do some inletting on the rear of the foreend for the octagonal part of the barrel (foreend was inlet for a round barrel). Just let Treebone Carving know that the stock is for a Swedish rolling block. There are some pictures of unfinished stocks on their website.
That being said, stock inletting for a rolling block is different than for a bolt action. The way I did it was I free-floated the rear of the foreend from the front of the action. Then I made sure that the ends of the receiver tangs were free-floated from the wood too. I made sure that the buttstock wood was bearing only against the rear of the receiver. I used a bit of acraglas (well, maybe more than a bit on the foreend!!) to complete the bedding and it worked out well. No stock splits with mostly mild cast bullet loads and a few full-power jacketed loads. I can post some pictures of the bedding points and inside of the foreend if you want.

Tom
Reply author: kriggevaer
Replied on: 02/22/2007 10:17:28 PM
Message:

Spanner,
Thanks for the information. I've been reading the Tree Bone site and it helps to have some first hand info. And, very nice rifle!
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