M-48 7.62X25 ammo
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There is no smg ammo thats a myth. Its all smg and its all handgun, there are no special loadings for smgs. Different powders from different countries have different burn rates which make them feel different when you fire them. They all chrono about the same. And for the split necks I would not worry too much, I ran a whole spam can of some Yugo or Polish (can't remember which) where every round had a split neck before or after firing. No effect on the gun.
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Its prob Polish. Century has em on sale with a disclaimer about the split necks. It says its ok to shoot.
actually there is difference
7.62x25 made for the pistols shoots 1100-1400fps (big variance)
the carbines (PPSH41) need 1550+ to cycle properly, which is why there are some rounds which have been chrony'd @ 1600-1700fps.
Hearsay is that ammo is typically not imported into the US, because it will damage the weaker Tokarov pistols (safety issue?)....
(Think of it like shooting 9mm IMI black tipped ammo out of a Hi-Point)
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Please cite a source. No one here has been able to replicate the subgun ammo claims.
Be careful with the m-48. No, it won't blow up. But the batch i had was inconsistenly loaded and had hard and dead primers. Most likely storage issues. Not fun to shoot. If yours works, use it, but i must caution against getting suckered into getting a lot when bulgarian and romanian that work fine are out there.
Be careful with the m-48. No, it won't blow up. But the batch i had was inconsistenly loaded and had hard and dead primers. Most likely storage issues. Not fun to shoot. If yours works, use it, but i must caution against getting suckered into getting a lot when bulgarian and romanian that work fine are out there.
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I don't know whether or not there is 7.62x25mm loaded hotter for smg's but I can give you this advice if you're really worried about shooting smg ammo in a pistol... One way to tell if the ammo was intended for pistol or smg is to look at the packaging. If it comes in brown paper packets of 16 rounds tied up with twine, it was intended for pistols (two mags of 8 rounds each) or packed in boxes of 70 or 72 rounds it was intended for smgs.
I'm not saying the ammo in boxes is any hotter than the stuff in paper packets, it's just that the Com Bloc countries packaged ammo certain ways for easier distribution to their troops.
I'm not saying the ammo in boxes is any hotter than the stuff in paper packets, it's just that the Com Bloc countries packaged ammo certain ways for easier distribution to their troops.
incorrect.
or it means the bulgarian was in 16 round packages and the romanian was in 72 round boxes. Different countries just using different packaging.
explain what romanian subgun mag in 7.62x25 took 72 rounds... or even 36 rounds? you can't can you? its because that ammo was intended for pistols.
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72 rounds...it's a multiple of 8. The TT-33 and the Cz52 take 8 rounds in the magazine. Duh.
As for SMG vs pistol ammo...that's open to interpretation as they used the SAME ammo for all. The Romanian and Serbian ammo seems hotter but the bullet velocities are almost the same due to the type of powder used and also on how worn/weak the recoil spring in your gun might or might not be. The stories of guns blowing up are due to defective parts, overcharged loads and negligent handling. I've used Romanian, Polish, Serbian and Russian ammo with no issues. As for allegedly hotter ammo...that's due to bullet weight and how the round is crimped which WILL affect chamber pressure and how well the round seats into the chamber. As a rule I always run ALL milsurp ammo through a Lee Precision crimping die and inspect them for cracks to keep consistency and guarantee the round will seat properly in the chamber and fire safely. I've had to scrap only 3 or 4 for that reason so far. At an average cost of 10 cents a round I am not concerned about cost for that few being bad.
I have a Cz52 with new 19lb recoil spring & Harrington rollers/firing pin that I keep properly greased and oiled. Never had a problem with it and only had 1 FTF out of thousands of rounds of ammo run through it, be it military surplus or store bought.
As with ANY gun, you will have some problems until it's break in period is run through and you are aware of its limitations and your own.
As for SMG vs pistol ammo...that's open to interpretation as they used the SAME ammo for all. The Romanian and Serbian ammo seems hotter but the bullet velocities are almost the same due to the type of powder used and also on how worn/weak the recoil spring in your gun might or might not be. The stories of guns blowing up are due to defective parts, overcharged loads and negligent handling. I've used Romanian, Polish, Serbian and Russian ammo with no issues. As for allegedly hotter ammo...that's due to bullet weight and how the round is crimped which WILL affect chamber pressure and how well the round seats into the chamber. As a rule I always run ALL milsurp ammo through a Lee Precision crimping die and inspect them for cracks to keep consistency and guarantee the round will seat properly in the chamber and fire safely. I've had to scrap only 3 or 4 for that reason so far. At an average cost of 10 cents a round I am not concerned about cost for that few being bad.
I have a Cz52 with new 19lb recoil spring & Harrington rollers/firing pin that I keep properly greased and oiled. Never had a problem with it and only had 1 FTF out of thousands of rounds of ammo run through it, be it military surplus or store bought.
As with ANY gun, you will have some problems until it's break in period is run through and you are aware of its limitations and your own.
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So they made two identical dimentioned rounds with two SPECIFIC loads and DID NOT bother to label them.....or place a warning on the box...or publish a Soldiers manual telling of the use of each???? Come on, the PPSh gets a higer velocity because of the LONGER barrel. Why, tell me WHY you want a "hotter load" for a PPSH41 when you have been using that round in your handgun for YEARS and have warehouses FULL of ammo already to go.
SMGs are designed to use PISTOL AMMO! It is just that simple. And guys get off that "size of the box means" stuff. Does USGI 30-06 packed in 20rd boxes have some special load in there for BAR use only???
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I've never heard of anyone outside of special forces carrying 9 pistol magazines into combat, especially when the handgun was only issued with 2.
Hmm... 70rds... PPS used 35rd magazines... 70 divided by 35 equals 2
72rds... PPSh used 35rd magazines or a 71rd drum... a 71rd box just doesn't make sense, nor is it practical. 9 rows of 8, or 8 rows of 9
.30-06, 20rd boxes... BAR uses 20rd magazines, M1903 uses 5rd stripper clips... 20 divided by 5 equals 4. US M1923 Cartridge belt has 10 pockets, each pocket holds 2 M1903 stripper clips or one 8rd M1 Garand clip. 2 stripper clips x 5rds each x 10 pockets = 100rds divided by 20rds in a box = 5 boxes issued to each M1903 or M1917 armed soldier. 8rd M1 Garand clip x 10 pockets = 80rds divided by 20rds in a box = 4 boxes issued to each M1 Garand armed soldier
shall I go on to do the math for 6 pocket US bandoliers?
I never said the ammo was loaded for SMG, I'm just saying it was packaged so that each soldier could quickly grab enough boxes, or packets of ammo to reload quickly.
Many guys I served with would never load more than 28rds in their M16 mags, because it might wear the spring out faster, or because they thought it was faster to do a tactical reload with less rounds in the mag. But that didn't stop the DoD from packaging M885 on 10rd stripper clips, 3 stripper clips to a mag x 7 mags to each marine = 21 stripper clips. 210rds divided by 840rds in an ammo can = ammo for 4 marines, is it a coincidence that a "fire team" consists of 4 marines?
Hmm... 70rds... PPS used 35rd magazines... 70 divided by 35 equals 2
72rds... PPSh used 35rd magazines or a 71rd drum... a 71rd box just doesn't make sense, nor is it practical. 9 rows of 8, or 8 rows of 9
.30-06, 20rd boxes... BAR uses 20rd magazines, M1903 uses 5rd stripper clips... 20 divided by 5 equals 4. US M1923 Cartridge belt has 10 pockets, each pocket holds 2 M1903 stripper clips or one 8rd M1 Garand clip. 2 stripper clips x 5rds each x 10 pockets = 100rds divided by 20rds in a box = 5 boxes issued to each M1903 or M1917 armed soldier. 8rd M1 Garand clip x 10 pockets = 80rds divided by 20rds in a box = 4 boxes issued to each M1 Garand armed soldier
shall I go on to do the math for 6 pocket US bandoliers?
I never said the ammo was loaded for SMG, I'm just saying it was packaged so that each soldier could quickly grab enough boxes, or packets of ammo to reload quickly.
Many guys I served with would never load more than 28rds in their M16 mags, because it might wear the spring out faster, or because they thought it was faster to do a tactical reload with less rounds in the mag. But that didn't stop the DoD from packaging M885 on 10rd stripper clips, 3 stripper clips to a mag x 7 mags to each marine = 21 stripper clips. 210rds divided by 840rds in an ammo can = ammo for 4 marines, is it a coincidence that a "fire team" consists of 4 marines?
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So 840rd cans of 5.56mm ammo are "Marine fire team Specific"? HELL YES That is a concidence! What does a 11 man Army Squad draw for ammo? How about a SEAL team? You don't understand the amount of ammo packed in that can just happen to be the number of rounds that fit in a can designed DECADES before the 5,56mm round was adopted? What foresight!
Sure bandolleers and stripper clip ammo is "intended for" a specific weapon. And that is the type of ammo you send out to a combat unit. I was in Vietnam in the 1960s and I have to tell you I would not expect to be handed a 20rd box of 7.62NATO for my M14 in the middle of a fire fight. Boxed ammo is Intended for training!
Do the math for me on 45 ACP and 9mm NATO in 50rd boxes.
In the book "Czech Firearms and Ammunition" it specifically mentions the 7.62x25 round. There was NO seperate SMG/Pistol round (7.62x25). Where the myth started was a very early early document where the Czechs were experimenting (prototype) with a +P 9mm luger round for what they wanted in the Vzor 52 Pistol which happened to be labeled M48 at the time but was years earlier.
On the other countries... don't have a clue, but from my studies, it's mostly myth, from the FPS standpoint, they never needed it.
Ed
On the other countries... don't have a clue, but from my studies, it's mostly myth, from the FPS standpoint, they never needed it.
Ed
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reasons don't run well ppsh...weight displuming inertia by drilling out for firing pin, weight loss. geomatry, longer barrel changes things too as Lyman suggested
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