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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

I've decided recently that I needed an electronic powder unit and since my options in Europe are limited, I decided to go with the Lyman Gen 6.

I do feel like there might be an issue with the device and I'd like the more experienced members to share their thoughts on the below:

- When calibrating, most of the time it measures the 50g calibration weight at 49.99 for some reason. Sometimes it does calibrate correctly.
- After calibration I zero the scale with the powder pan on. When removing the pan it shows -111.7 grains. After that I replace the pan, dispense a charge, and when removing the pan it shows only -111.6 grains. The nex time or maybe 2-3 loads later it will show -111.5 without the pan, then -111.4 etc. In other words, the load cell seems to degrade for some reason over time.

I'd really like to avoid having to send the unit back for all the hassle but I'm not sure if it will ever work correctly.

Thanks in advance,
Tom
 

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how long was the unit on before you did all this.
warm up is important, as in a power controller
electronics like things to be "normal" and often
power will vary over the day.
 

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What sort of room illumination do you have? Fluorescent lighting is a known source of interference with electronic scales. There may also be some other source of magnetic fields in the work area.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
how long was the unit on before you did all this.
warm up is important, as in a power controller
electronics like things to be "normal" and often
power will vary over the day.
Normal 3 minute warm-up as claimed by Lyman. Tried maybe an hour later too, was still doing it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
What sort of room illumination do you have? Fluorescent lighting is a known source of interference with electronic scales. There may also be some other source of magnetic fields in the work area.
I have a ceiling mounted lamp with 3 halogen bulbs in it. The device was plugged into a dual socket divider and about 1.5 feet away from a laptop.
 

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I Have a Hornady, but perhaps my experiences can help. Perhaps not.

I also often see the 49.99 gram thing with mine, too, but as that is only about a .01 gram (0.15 grain out of 771.62 grain (50 grams)) error (.0002, or .02%), I figure I can live with it, as long as it is consistent (and it seems to be).

If the error is there, it might come out to be .01 grains off on the charge if you are throwing 50 grain charges.

I could never hope to consistently read a balance pan scale with that type of accuracy, so to me it just is what it is.

I leave my unit on for a minimum of 20 minutes before I try doing anything with it (even calibration), and I don't seem to get that same degradation in the tare (pan) weight over time.

I might see .01 grains either way, but it seems random, and could be accounted for by a slight amount of friction between the pan support and the hole that supports it, which is pretty much unavoidable.

One thing I DO insist on is that my hands be completely clean and dry when I handle the pan and the calibration weights. I can see where moisture/skin oils/gun oil/and the like could change the measurements.

My room illumination is a two tube fluorescent fixture located about five feet above where I use the powder measure (the fixture is screwed to the floor joists/ceiling rafters in my basement with a piece of prefab kitchen counter (my work surface) beneath it). Sometimes there is also a small LED TV (powered by a 12 volt converter that came with the TV) running, again about five feet away from the measure.

Even though the fluorescent lights and the TV run off the same 15 Amp circuit breaker that supplies the power to the powder measure, they don't seem to bother anything with my setup. However, U.S. (North America standard) fluorescent tubes run at standard U.S. 120 Volts 60-cycle power, not the 200+ volt 50 cycle power that is common in Europe. I don't believe the LED screen emits much, if anything.

Perhaps European fixtures (probably not TV's, though) put out a stronger E-M field. This MIGHT be something to look into.

I was trained as a Mechanical Engineer, so I tend to overanalyze EVERYTHING (drives my wife NUTS!), Some of the 'criticisms'/'analysis' above may be valid, and some not. You decide.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hi Ronbo6, thanks for your input.

What annoys the heck out of me at the moment is that the unit started measuring the powder pan to be 111.5 grains. Before it measured it to be 111.7-111.6. I don't understand the inconsistency. I'm checking with a Lyman pocket digital scale and the loads are OK when the pan is measured at 111.7-111.6, but when it shows the pan to be 111.5 some loads are as much as .2 grains below what the dispenser's screen shows. Starting to get really annoyed...
 

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I had almost forgotten, but several years ago, I also had one of the earliest Lyman electronic digital powder scales for a while.

It sounds like you are having just about the same 'zero shift' problem I had with that one.

Its problem showed up as a 'zero shift', along with the scale's inability to show small weights either side of zero.

The scale wouldn't indicate any weight on it at all until the weight was plus or minus 0.5 grains from what it believed at the moment was 'zero', which made it pretty hard to know when it was wandering.

Does your measure have this same problem?

I developed a 'work around' for that which seemed to work OK for me.

Every time I threw a charge, I would check the 'negative weight' shown on the scale when I lifted the pan, just like you do.

I would empty the contents of the pan into a 'container' (a large cartridge case with a fired primer seated backwards into the primer pocket to close it off), replace the pan, hit ZERO on the scale (it DID have a ZERO button that got used a LOT), lift the pan to verify that the 'tare weight' was now correct, and put the charge from the 'container' back into the pan.

As often as not, the measured charge weight was off, requiring me to either 'play with' (add or remove powder) or scrap the charge and throw a new one.

I quit using this scale because it was just too much of a pain in the ass to deal with. Errors in measuring could be pretty dangerous with small pistol charges, and it slowed down my production SERIOUSLY.

I never did send the scale back to Lyman. It now occupies a space in my 'tub of broken toys' (things I don't use anymore).

It sounds like the Lyman scale measurement electronic circuitry may be no better than it was 10-15 years ago.

I currently use the Hornady automatic powder dispenser I mentioned in the earlier post. It CAN read small charges either side of zero, and if the zero is off, it will NOT start to throw a charge. MUCH better operation.
 

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get rid of the scale.
it is much less accuate and cannot be used to check a more accurate tool.
it has a crude step function for its .1 reading...which might be .06 or .09

Hi Ronbo6, thanks for your input.

What annoys the heck out of me at the moment is that the unit started measuring the powder pan to be 111.5 grains. Before it measured it to be 111.7-111.6. I don't understand the inconsistency. I'm checking with a Lyman pocket digital scale and the loads are OK when the pan is measured at 111.7-111.6, but when it shows the pan to be 111.5 some loads are as much as .2 grains below what the dispenser's screen shows. Starting to get really annoyed...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
get rid of the scale.
it is much less accuate and cannot be used to check a more accurate tool.
it has a crude step function for its .1 reading...which might be .06 or .09

Hi Ronbo6, thanks for your input.

Thats what annoys me most, the cheap little scale is consistent and it keeps showing the same weight for the powder pan for example whereas the powder dispenser degrades from 111.7 all the way down to 111.3.

I've lost confidence in the unit and I don't think a 300 Dollar device should be so unreliable. Not to mention it spills powder all over the place
. Back it goes for a refund tomorrow...
 

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get rid of the scale.
it is much less accuate and cannot be used to check a more accurate tool.
it has a crude step function for its .1 reading...which might be .06 or .09
OR 1.1 to 1.4 as well. Total span:0.51 to 1.49, and who knows which way it will round on the .050's.

It is going to be pretty hard and/or expensive to find an automated powder measure that can weigh down to .01 grains.

Based upon the performance of the 0.1 grain models, they will also be horrifically slow getting to the correct charge weight with some powders.

For maybe 98%-99% of the reloaders out here, a 0.1 grain resolution is sufficiently accurate for what we are doing.

I know 0.1 grain is a pretty coarse measurement for benchresters and someone who is trying to shoot the left wings off horseflies at 500 yards, but it is what it is.
 

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I have a Gen 6 and it works great. I have loaded at least 1500 rounds with it. Yours is probably defective.

Mine dispenses at the setting, or .1 less around 15 out of 16 "drops". One drop is usually .1 grain higher than setting.

I only use it for extruded powders. A high quality, manual powder drop is just as accurate and faster than an electronic set-up for ball powders.

In my limited experience, ball powders don't meter well in electronic dispensers.

Basic


Make sure your surface is level.

When zeroing make sure the weight and pan sit on the scale a while before zeroing

Keep electrical components at least three feet away from it.
 

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i l
know you have limited access but consider the chargemaster.
it is used by short range BENCHREST shooters.
or jump to a a&d fx120i
.02 with .03 tolerence
 

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I have a Gen 6 and it works great. I have loaded at least 1500 rounds with it. Yours is probably defective.

Mine dispenses at the setting, or .1 less around 15 out of 16 "drops". One drop is usually .1 grain higher than setting.

I only use it for extruded powders. A high quality, manual powder drop is just as accurate and faster than an electronic set-up for ball powders.

In my limited experience, ball powders don't meter well in electronic dispensers.

Basic


Make sure your surface is level.

When zeroing make sure the weight and pan sit on the scale a while before zeroing

Keep electrical components at least three feet away from it.
It may not be any more accurate, but I run a LOT of BLC2 through my Hornady dispenser (usually 26.0 grains behind a 55 grain FMJ bullet), and the next charge is almost always sitting and waiting for me by the time I have finished seating the bullet and placed the previous cartridge in the bin. This is on the 'SLOW' setting. At least the Hornady seems to do pretty well with Ball powders.

I have gotten away from using manual powder measures. My OCD hates them. I prefer EVERY charge be weighed.
 
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