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I think its more population density & land usage.
We were all beginners once, long, long ago & Far, Far away.
Some of the "FNG's" will eventually become proficient riflemen.
I say lets give 'em a change & encourage & mentor them.
I think this may be true. I was at that range the other day and a young came over and asked me if I had that "old Russian gun" with me. He wanted to show his buddy the old Russian gun that outshot his big buck magnum rifle with a ballistic calculator scope at 500yds. The old Russian rifle was a 1944 PU with Chinese surplus ball.Said he was looking for one he could afford. So maybe there is still a bit of hope.
 

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Its sad but thee seem to be more long (1,000+ Yd) ranges in the U.K. Than on the Right bank of the USA!
The longest place I can actually shoot is private land to 650 yds.
We also get opportunities to shoot 1000m plus on Ministry Of Defence ranges as well, Google "Sennybridge F Range", "Salisbury Plain Javelin Range" or "Warcop Range" to get an idea.......F Range goes out to around 2700m from the firing point iirc.
 

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Yeah, I have a friend who shoots regularly at Altcar.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Kuuak... Hlavinka's 6.5 Swede is a laser beam , I've seen it shoot at 1000 yds here at Quantico, its got 150 round count and if I was not so far along on a 6.5 Swede build, I'd be buying his rifle...its set up right. He's a great guy and superb shooter.
 

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Funny Milprileb,

I've for the last 1.5 years have been trying to look for the right caliber to hover 1000 yards or more.
However I needed it to be:
Non-magnum
Easily reloadable or good selection of bullets
Good barrel life

All these criteria have lead me to 30-06 and 6.5 Swede calibers. (Also plan to experiment with 8mm mauser just cause I have so much experience with it)

30.06 seems the natural choice it has the selection and case capacity that a reloader can easily use to push it over .308 abilities.
6.5 swede to me gets that lighter flatter but IMO does it better then 6.5 creedmoor and won't burn out my barrel faster.

It's just coincidental that someone else has had the same conclusions although perhaps different reasons for ending up with similar choices to go with.
 

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I can’t even imagine what a range longer than 300yrds would look like😂. Absolutely nothing near me. You guys that have them are very fortunate.
Richard
 

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Here's a range from 25 yds to 650 or so.The little white dot to the lower right of the big tree (circled), is the 650 yd target its a manhole size gong.
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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Funny Milprileb,

I've for the last 1.5 years have been trying to look for the right caliber to hover 1000 yards or more.

It's just coincidental that someone else has had the same conclusions although perhaps different reasons for ending up with similar choices to go with.
You're smarter than me. I got side tracked to short action calibers but my gut at the time said 3006 or 6.5 Swede is the way to go. Ten years and range time / lots of money ill invested, I arrive back where I first started....I needed a 3006 or 6.5 Swede.

So...I'd say you're 10 years and 10 Grand smarter than me.
 

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Funny Milprileb,

I've for the last 1.5 years have been trying to look for the right caliber to hover 1000 yards or more.
However I needed it to be:
Non-magnum
Easily reloadable or good selection of bullets
Good barrel life

All these criteria have lead me to 30-06 and 6.5 Swede calibers. (Also plan to experiment with 8mm mauser just cause I have so much experience with it)

30.06 seems the natural choice it has the selection and case capacity that a reloader can easily use to push it over .308 abilities.
6.5 swede to me gets that lighter flatter but IMO does it better then 6.5 creedmoor and won't burn out my barrel faster.

It's just coincidental that someone else has had the same conclusions although perhaps different reasons for ending up with similar choices to go with.
US ammo / rifles industry is driven by huge marketing machine. It's truly remarkable and powerful "machine", I like to think about it as an octopus. Well, this octopus has tentacles all over the places, manufacturers, media, social media, forums and etc. Anyway, industry hates stagnation because stagnation leads to lower sales. So they need some new "miracle" thing (like new caliber, rifle, bullet or etc) fairly often create hype just to keep pushing sales. 30-06 or 6.5 swede are well established calibers, with proven track record, but it is hard to excite Koolaid drinking shooting community about them, because "only fuds" use them...they are boringly good. So the industry is coming up with all the new "cool" things and uses marketing machine AKA "octopus", to keep pushing "fresh and exciting" new shit. That's why we fall into their traps, buy different barrels, rounds, experiment, burn money down the pipe, to only go full circle and arrive at the point where we started...difference is, huge hole in your wallet and collection of the guns in setups and calibers you don't really need... :ROFLMAO:
 

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The best shots at our 1000 yd line are doing it with Accuracy International rifles and many shoot the 1 mile event often. AICS products are expensive but they don't underperform. I can't afford their rifles but if you can and need a proven track record precision rifle maker, AICS is the hot ticket but not in 308 Win. AICS 6.5 Creedmoor rifles are amazingly accurate by the way.
milprileb, that is what I hope to do with extra Remington M700 short action that lacks a barrel and chassis. Need to find a older AICS chassis for it. I'd like to see Hlavinka's rifle at some point, sounds like a nice project.

As I have mentioned before, my challenge on the weekends is that it's typically full with family stuff, and range time at Quantico is pretty infrequent the past few years. (Vintage matches only). If I had the spare time, and based on your post, I would like to do a fairly controlled "A vs B" test/experiment of my two 6.5 caliber rifles that I think would perform okay at 1000 yards. These two rifles have not come out of the gun safe in awhile; top is my Tikka T3 Sporter in 6.5 Swede (24" factory barrel) vs the bottom is a Savage Long Range Precision (LRP) in 6.5 CM (26" factory barrel). I even have an extra Bushnell 3.5-21x56mm HDMR scope with the H59 reticle, so I could theoretically mount that scope on the Tikka to keep the playing field level, but I would need to find some 34mm rings for the unique Tikka dovetail. (It currently has my old Leupold Mk 4, 8.5-25X FFP with standard Mil-Dot reticle).

Air gun Trigger Shotgun Machine gun Gun barrel

As for a prospective factory ammo comparisons, I have a few boxes in both calibers that use 140 grain BTHP match bullets, and thus would provide a decent A vs B test.
6.5 Creedmoor factory ammo (140 AMAX or ELD bullets at 2700 fps per manufacture, w/ 24" barrel)
6.5 Swedish Mauser factory ammo (140 gr BTHP at 2600 fps & some 120 gr at approx 2650 fps).

I have only have 2 boxes of the pricey Lapua 6.5 Swede factory, and unlike US manufactures who download domestic 6.5 Swede due to liability/popularity of its use in old M1896 Swedish Mausers here in the USA - over in Europe Lapua loads this ammo to its 'full power' levels, as the 6.5 Swede is used in various modern actions in Scandinavian countries. For example, the 136 grain SCENAR ammo is listed at 2,923 fps on their website, and the 120 SCENAR ammo is listed at 3,018 fps(!). No US ammo manufactuer loads 6.5 Swede anywhere near that power level, but in a modern Tikka action its fine.
Both Lapua loads would be worth testing at 1000 yards...if I could ever find the time to conduct such a controlled test. (I have only 2 boxes of each, and its even more pricey now).
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Anyhow, both rifles are about 0.5 MOA at 200 yards with various handloads (H4350 with 6.5CM and RL 22 with the 6.5 Swede). One day I hope to test the 6.5 short action vs 6.5 long action with quality 140 grain match ammo, just to see if they perform any differently at 1000 yards...
 

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I am looking fwd Rob to your Swede M41 B 'war' vid....specifically the visible round trace as the round goes down range that is so nicely viewable thru the target camera.....
 

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For shooting steel, the Swede M96, FSR, CG63, CG80, and the Finn Mosin 28/30 are accurate 1000 yard rifles.
Lapua cases are the most accurate. Winchester cases are ok.
RL22 powder for the 6.5x55.
 

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For shooting steel, the Swede M96, FSR, CG63, CG80, and the Finn Mosin 28/30 are accurate 1000 yard rifles.
Lapua cases are the most accurate. Winchester cases are ok.
RL22 powder for the 6.5x55.
You forgot to mention that youngish eyes with excellent ability to focus on the front sight are also needed to shoot those rifles accurately at 1000 yards w/ iron sights. (My middle-age eyes simply won't work at those distances...optics are required). That said, I do have some of the right components for 200-300 yard shooting, if I had more practice time...
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(It also appears that I need to find some more Federal Gold Medal Match primers to load 6.5 Swede)
 

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Beautiful rifle!
I am 85 years old, have been blessed with better than 20/10 vision.
I have been wearing my eyes out reading until the wee hours of the morning, and my vision is diminishing.
Not really good with scopes and don't enjoy shooting with scopes.
I use only Winchester Large Rifle primers.
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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
Random Guy is a great shot, he picked up my 03a4 Gibbs clone and shot 3 rds at 1000 yds...two ten ring and one 9 ring with my match loads. Pretty darn good with a strange rifle and 2.5x WWII optics and shooting the NRA 600 yd bulls eye target which is what we do at Quantico for the sniper match at 800/1000 yd line. Random Guy has some really interesting rifles and no one around here can match his M14 collection
 

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Thanks milprileb, I still stay it was 50 percent luck on your M1903A4 at 1000 yds, but every once in a while I will surprise myself.

Hag, you are blessed to have such good vision, esp at your age. I'd do just about anything to have the eyesight of my youth...but such is life.
 

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I use aperture front and back sights. A blade front sight is somewhat fuzzy to me.
I am sure you are a much better shot than me. Shooting tight groups with a scope is not something I can easily do.
Shooting steel is a thrill when you hit it.
Shooting paper is boring to me.
Your CG63 is similar to the one that I intend to sell.
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I'm an avid fan of the 30-06. Have 5 rifles in that caliber. Easy to develope a great shooting load without a lot of work. Now some may call this scraigious C(can't spell worth a darn, but you get the idea) I have never equaled the accuracy of my 30-06's with the 308/7.62Nato. My Rem 700 Sendero absolutely stunk trying to get it to shoot accurately. Best rifle in 308/7.62 Nato is my almost 30 year old Savage 110FP with the crappy Rynite stock. And that was with M118 Special ball when loaded with the 168 gr SMK. my Sako 75 (discontinued model) in 30-06 will do an honest 1" at 100yds. It will also do the same with my elderly lot of Lake City M72 dated 1963. The Sako chrono's out at 2800 and a bit more. The Lake City 1963 M72 is only good for 2640 but has a slightly heavier 173 bullet versus 165 Nosler Ballistic tip. And no scope settings have to be done. So yeah,will be watching this carefully when Milprileb decides to go with the 30-06. And as everyone knows "the 30-06 is never a mistake". Frank
 
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