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"Yeah, I can't get onto Quantico, not being a US citizen.
There s a place in WVa, "

Here you go Plonk. Not sure where you are. About 45 minutes from where I live and I have never been there. Fished in the stream across the road from the cutoff though, if that counts. It is in the middle of nowhere but beautiful country.
 

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...The point is 1000 yds is no special deal if its hits on a man and all can master that with a factory 762 Nato rifle. If hits on a man is the standard you seek...easy stuff. If smaller targets...you need better equipment and a lot of work...
This is the main point: there is "good enough" and better when it comes to long range effectiveness. I said "effectiveness" deliberately because what counts is a hit where it hurts rather than a super tight group that is not centered on the aiming point. If you cannot center a group on a 200 yd target, "effective" hits at 1000 yds will be luck and not skill. (IMHO marksmanship begins at 200 yds. 100 yd targets are for sight zero confirmation.)

...1000 yds : just do it if you want to do it. Don't let the flat earth society tell you its exotic or special or really hard to do. Total BS that 1000 yds is anything hard to do
"Milprileb" is being modest about his mastery of shooting skill. Whatever accuracy goal you set yourself, dedication of time and effort is the foundation. I have an Enfield No 4 Mk 1. that was used by the South African navy. It looks rather beat up, but the bore is pristine. Evidently this rifle spent its life on parade and guard duty. If it was ever fired it shot South African nitro cellulose ammo and was spared the ravages of Cordite. I got curious about the wide "basketball hoop" battle sight and gave it a try. It took a while to get the hang of it. The trick is to ignore the rear sight completely. You just look through it at the front sight and target. When you eventually master this sight, it will reliably punch holes on an 18" wide bull or B27 silhouette at 300 yds without even thinking about it. I can take this rifle to my range months after its last use and get on target immediately.
 

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"Yeah, I can't get onto Quantico, not being a US citizen.
There s a place in WVa, "

Here you go Plonk. Not sure where you are. About 45 minutes from where I live and I have never been there. Fished in the stream across the road from the cutoff though, if that counts. It is in the middle of nowhere but beautiful country.
The rest doesn't show up? can you re-post or PM me?
I'm in the wasp waist of MD by the thinnest part of the state before it widens out again to the West. Google the I-70, I-81 interchange.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Plonker, if you have interest in shooting a Quantico, come up with a PM to me and we
can discuss options. Be warned, we start promptly at 0715 and end mid day. You'd have a healthy commute to do this both ways. PM me if interested.
 

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Thanks.
I'm right in the middle of moving right now, possibly in that general direction.
Let me get back to you when we're settled.
 
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The rest doesn't show up? can you re-post or PM me?
I'm in the wasp waist of MD by the thinnest part of the state before it widens out again to the West. Google the I-70, I-81 interchange.
Well let me try again. The Original Pennsylvania 1000 Yard Benchrest Club, Inc. The Birthplace of Long Range Shooting. (pa1000yard.com) My son and his wife both work in that general vicinity. Architect and mad biologist. No idea where they ply their trade for sure. Live across the border in Hanover/Gettysburg area.
 
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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Rob,

8mm has a very limited menu of bullets and not a caliber I'm keen on spending the money to rebarrel and prove its worth BUT I do believe it has great potential...just a dead caliber in the world these days. I own a 8mm Rem Magnum (might be the only one alive today with one) but unfortunately its a Rem700 hunting rifle and the barrel is unsuitable for long range accuracy. Perfect world, I'd rebarrel a 700 Rem in 8mm and I bet I'd get some impressive results. However 8mm bullets won't ever have the BC of 6.5 so now we are down to which will most likely be most accurate. In order to move that 8mm bullet in something less than a magnum case and get the velocity , I'd venture to say 8mm/06 might get that 8mm heavy bullet moving fast enough to shoot long range respectably.

I am not aware of anyone who took 8mm Rem Mag and tried to make it a long range performer. If 338 Lapua can do it ...why not 8mm Rem Mag ?

So Rob, what we may have here is a lost opportunity with a potentially great caliber just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

My thoughts on 8x57 is the rifles that shoot it , have miserable military sights and thus accuracy was never that great. I'd wager a great barrel in 8x57 installed in a 700 Remington would give the Rem 700 in 3006 a hard run. 8mm seems to be a caliber America just didn't get excited about.
 

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Rob,

8mm has a very limited menu of bullets and not a caliber I'm keen on spending the money to rebarrel and prove its worth BUT I do believe it has great potential...just a dead caliber in the world these days. I own a 8mm Rem Magnum (might be the only one alive today with one) but unfortunately its a Rem700 hunting rifle and the barrel is unsuitable for long range accuracy. Perfect world, I'd rebarrel a 700 Rem in 8mm and I bet I'd get some impressive results. However 8mm bullets won't ever have the BC of 6.5 so now we are down to which will most likely be most accurate. In order to move that 8mm bullet in something less than a magnum case and get the velocity , I'd venture to say 8mm/06 might get that 8mm heavy bullet moving fast enough to shoot long range respectably.

I am not aware of anyone who took 8mm Rem Mag and tried to make it a long range performer. If 338 Lapua can do it ...why not 8mm Rem Mag ?

So Rob, what we may have here is a lost opportunity with a potentially great caliber just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

My thoughts on 8x57 is the rifles that shoot it , have miserable military sights and thus accuracy was never that great. I'd wager a great barrel in 8x57 installed in a 700 Remington would give the Rem 700 in 3006 a hard run. 8mm seems to be a caliber America just didn't get excited about.
I tested several K98's ,and was not satisfied with the accuracy. Kicks like a mule.
Did the 8x57 ever win a War ,or a rifle match?
The 6.5mm is very accurate, and much less recoil.
And there are a number of different bullets available.
 

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I tested several K98's ,and was not satisfied with the accuracy. Kicks like a mule.
Did the 8x57 ever win a War ,or a rifle match?
The 6.5mm is very accurate, and much less recoil.
And there are a number of different bullets available.
It's a negative on winning the war, but, @alund , Andy, haven't you won some medals with your high turret at Anniston? Or was it with 1903 only? Just checking... :D
6.5 Swede is accurate and soft on recoil, no question about that.
That being said, I still like what @milprileb is doing with 30-06. 30-06 has juice and balls to deliver for sure. Kind of sad that this caliber was pushed aside in recent years by US gun owners...
 

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...Did the 8x57 ever win a War...?
The Israelis used lots of Czech built Kar 98's and ZB26's during their war of independence. But there were lots of .303 rifles and BREN's used too, so it's a partial yes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
You don't read or hear much about wild catters anymore but in my youth there was a lot of innovative reloading done with 3006 case: 25-06, 270 Win, 6mm06, 6.5/06, (and before my time 8mm/06). The 308 case is a shortened 3006 case and spawned .243 Win, and the current 6.5 Creedmoor and 6mm Creedmoor are really 6.5/08 and 6mm/08 . In varmint and long range back decades ago the 270 Win was a game changer in long range accuracy. Being guilty here of repeating myself, I will just echo I find the trek with 308 win and 6.5 Creedmoor less rewarding for long range accuracy and find the old 3006 caliber provides the optimum solution short of going to a 300 Win Magnum.

One might reflect ten years or so ago the 300 Win Mag was being flogged as obsolete by the 300 "short" magnums which flopped and the big sale point was "they could be shot from a short action". Well, the short mag 300's were quite fine, they replicate 300 Win Mag which still today is a gold standard for long range accuracy work but this NONSENSE of short actions being relevant is just that. What is it...short action gets you 3 oz less weight and .3 of a nano second faster bolt throw ? But it did and does sell to the market of today and I got skunked by it and now own two short action expensive long range rifles which politely and accurately SUCK when compared to the long action 3006 rifle I just built. Maybe if I rebarrel one of those short actions in 300 Short Mag, I can kick it to performing as good as 3006.

3006 just might prove , if justice comes to town, to be proof they were not far off the mark in caliber development in the last century, and like the wheel, mosquito net and shower...hard to improve upon. I think they got it right with 3006
 

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One can argue for a lot of different cartridges and bore sizes...it's really tough to argue against 30-06! Especially here in the US.
 

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You don't read or hear much about wild catters anymore but in my youth there was a lot of innovative reloading done with 3006 case: 25-06, 270 Win, 6mm06, 6.5/06, (and before my time 8mm/06). The 308 case is a shortened 3006 case and spawned .243 Win, and the current 6.5 Creedmoor and 6mm Creedmoor are really 6.5/08 and 6mm/08 . In varmint and long range back decades ago the 270 Win was a game changer in long range accuracy. Being guilty here of repeating myself, I will just echo I find the trek with 308 win and 6.5 Creedmoor less rewarding for long range accuracy and find the old 3006 caliber provides the optimum solution short of going to a 300 Win Magnum.

One might reflect ten years or so ago the 300 Win Mag was being flogged as obsolete by the 300 "short" magnums which flopped and the big sale point was "they could be shot from a short action". Well, the short mag 300's were quite fine, they replicate 300 Win Mag which still today is a gold standard for long range accuracy work but this NONSENSE of short actions being relevant is just that. What is it...short action gets you 3 oz less weight and .3 of a nano second faster bolt throw ? But it did and does sell to the market of today and I got skunked by it and now own two short action expensive long range rifles which politely and accurately SUCK when compared to the long action 3006 rifle I just built. Maybe if I rebarrel one of those short actions in 300 Short Mag, I can kick it to performing as good as 3006.

3006 just might prove , if justice comes to town, to be proof they were not far off the mark in caliber development in the last century, and like the wheel, mosquito net and shower...hard to improve upon. I think they got it right with 3006
300 mag…see it you can hit it….wva…distance known optional ..
 

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It's a negative on winning the war, but, @alund , Andy, haven't you won some medals with your high turret at Anniston? Or was it with 1903 only? Just checking... :D
6.5 Swede is accurate and soft on recoil, no question about that.
That being said, I still like what @milprileb is doing with 30-06. 30-06 has juice and balls to deliver for sure. Kind of sad that this caliber was pushed aside in recent years by US gun owners...
Yes. John and I took 5th with a silver medal for 300-600 at their first outing. I can’t remember my final score but both of us dropped a few points keeping us from gold. In fact, I created a load some time back with a 198 grain hornady projectile but those have become harder to find. Because of that I have Nosler 200 grain bullets which actually seem to be slightly more accurate.. maybe. I’m happy with them and I use my shooting jacket so the kick is not so bad.. about 10 years ago I used a reproduction double claw and that thing beat my ass.
 

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You don't read or hear much about wild catters anymore but in my youth there was a lot of innovative reloading done with 3006 case: 25-06, 270 Win, 6mm06, 6.5/06, (and before my time 8mm/06). The 308 case is a shortened 3006 case and spawned .243 Win, and the current 6.5 Creedmoor and 6mm Creedmoor are really 6.5/08 and 6mm/08 . In varmint and long range back decades ago the 270 Win was a game changer in long range accuracy. Being guilty here of repeating myself, I will just echo I find the trek with 308 win and 6.5 Creedmoor less rewarding for long range accuracy and find the old 3006 caliber provides the optimum solution short of going to a 300 Win Magnum.

One might reflect ten years or so ago the 300 Win Mag was being flogged as obsolete by the 300 "short" magnums which flopped and the big sale point was "they could be shot from a short action". Well, the short mag 300's were quite fine, they replicate 300 Win Mag which still today is a gold standard for long range accuracy work but this NONSENSE of short actions being relevant is just that. What is it...short action gets you 3 oz less weight and .3 of a nano second faster bolt throw ? But it did and does sell to the market of today and I got skunked by it and now own two short action expensive long range rifles which politely and accurately SUCK when compared to the long action 3006 rifle I just built. Maybe if I rebarrel one of those short actions in 300 Short Mag, I can kick it to performing as good as 3006.

3006 just might prove , if justice comes to town, to be proof they were not far off the mark in caliber development in the last century, and like the wheel, mosquito net and shower...hard to improve upon. I think they got it right with 3006

re the wildcatting,

the 6mm and to a smaller extent the 6.5mm crowd has come up with a plethora of wildcat cartridges over the past 15-20 yrs or more,

the PRS crowd loves some 6mm dasher, but I am not sure what the max range they are going with it
 

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You don't read or hear much about wild catters anymore but in my youth there was a lot of innovative reloading done with 3006 case: 25-06, 270 Win, 6mm06, 6.5/06, (and before my time 8mm/06).
There were lots of bolt action 30-06 rifles around then, but not that many self-loaders. With the inherent strength of a good bolt rifle, there was safety for high pressure loads that would damage or destroy a self-loader. But today the standard is the black gun, and toleration of out of spec pressure curves is restricted.
3006 just might prove , if justice comes to town, to be proof they were not far off the mark in caliber development in the last century, and like the wheel, mosquito net and shower...hard to improve upon. I think they got it right with 3006.
It's significant that the ancient 6.5x55 Swede has reemerged as the cartridge that also got it right.
 

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Yes. John and I took 5th with a silver medal for 300-600 at their first outing. I can’t remember my final score but both of us dropped a few points keeping us from gold. In fact, I created a load some time back with a 198 grain hornady projectile but those have become harder to find. Because of that I have Nosler 200 grain bullets which actually seem to be slightly more accurate.. maybe. I’m happy with them and I use my shooting jacket so the kick is not so bad.. about 10 years ago I used a reproduction double claw and that thing beat my ass.
Yes, recoil on those K98s could be snappy. Germans wanted to make sure that you knew that shot was fired, that's for sure! :ROFLMAO:
 

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Yes, recoil on those K98s could be snappy. Germans wanted to make sure that you knew that shot was fired, that's for sure! :ROFLMAO:
I have a DVD of selected "Die Wochenschau" WWII Wehrmacht newsreels about the operations in Finland. In one there is a closeup of a German soldier shooting his Kar 98. It is very obvious that he is wincing every time he fires it.

In WWI riflemen were issued a light ball round and machine guns got the heavy bullet. Adolf decreed that there would be only one type of ammunition, and it was the heavy ball.
 
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