Joined
·
2,719 Posts
This survey had been going for a couple of years in it's original form on the old Gunboards site. The posting had 11,225 hits up untill the site was transfered. I had been gathering the data provided on these rifles and between this forum and other contacts I have information on over 100 rifles. #(Now at Oct 2011 I have nearly 200 entries)# To contributors I offer to answer any questions I can in return for their HT's details. The only things I won't tell are exact locations or any personal details (.....if these things become known to me during the process) To anybody else who so wish, please feel free to comment or ask about stuff you'd like to see. It's all about expanding everyone's knowledge.
Anyway, here's the list of questions. And a few of the later answers from before. If you are unsure about anything, just ask. I check the forum daily. Thankyou.
1)Rifle serial number?
2)Receiver manufacturer?
3)Receiver year stamp?
4)Butt date stamp? (none?)
5)Butt size (S, N, L) "H" stamp?
6)Barrel date stamp?
7)Engraved Scope serial number?
8)Scope brass eyepiece ring stamped number?
9)Mount ring stamped number?
10)Mount base stamped number
11)Mount type (high or low)?
12)Nosecap ears modified for sight adjustment?
13)Kingscrew swivel fitted?
14)Preservative paint under woodwork?
15)Cheekpiece fitted to butt?
16)Comments? (anything you think needs a mention eg extra markings etc...)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JollyGreenSlugg
Gunboards Super Premium Member
Australia
453 Posts
Posted - 04/04/2006 : 08:26:19 AM
Hi folks,
I thought I might add my two bob's worth...
1. Serial number - 93210
2. Action make - Lithgow
3. Action date - 1917
4. Scope number - 274
5. Mount number - None visible
6. Ring number - 274
7. Date marking on butt - None, wood was replaced or sanded/polished
8. High or Low mount - High
9. Preservative paint or not - None seen
10. Cheekpiece - None
11. triggerguard king screw - swivel type
12. Nosecap - appears to be a replacement (mismatch), no holes
13. Barrel date - Replacement MA62
14. Butt length - appears to be normal
15. rubber eyepiece - None
Cheers,
Matt
Proud custodian of a 1889 Lee-Metford MkI*, a 1912 BSA No1 MkIII (with volley sights), a 1915 Lithgow No1 MkIII H (with volley sights), a 1917 Lithgow No1 MkIII HT, a 1917 BSA No1 MkIII*, a 1920 Siamese Contract No1 MkIII*, a 1941 Lithgow No1 MkIII*, a Maltby No4 Mk1, a 1945 No5 and a 1953 Fazakerley No4 Mk2. You can never have too many Lee-Enfields! I have an 1896 Long Lee I, a P14, a 1940 Lithgow No1 MkIII, a 1943 Lithgow No1 MkIII* and a 1942 Longbranch No4 Mk1* on the way. I'm still looking for a pre-SMLE carbine, an SMLE MkI, a 50s Lithgow and an 80s Ishapore though! One can dream!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Son
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
Australia
1167 Posts
Posted - 04/04/2006 : 10:45:55 AM
Go Matt!!!!!!
I had just looked at your pics etc on the LE forum and was going to PM you the updated survey questions. No matter, mate... I'll log your info into my spreadsheet from this (Vulch put the original set of Q's up here ages ago, I've been recording input and answering owner questions ever since) and send you some info on where to look for other stuff on the rifle.
I'll bet you don't sleep tonight!
Cheers, Brad.
YGT>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
angus9132
Gunboards Member
Australia
13 Posts
Posted - 04/28/2006 : 7:44:03 PM
G'day all
I have in my collection a scope and mounts as well as bases . The bases and the mounts have the same serial numbers , 1952 . The scope is not numbered . They are all in apear unissued and are in brand new condition. Does anyone have any info on the serial no's ??
Regards
Angus9132
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dogface
Gunboards Member
USA
12 Posts
Posted - 04/28/2006 : 10:17:02 PM
Anyway, here's the list of questions. And a few of the later answers from before. If you are unsure about anything, just ask. I check the forum daily. Thankyou.
1)Rifle serial number?
2)Receiver manufacturer?
3)Receiver year stamp?
4)Butt date stamp? (none?)
5)Butt size (S, N, L) "H" stamp?
6)Barrel date stamp?
7)Engraved Scope serial number?
8)Scope brass eyepiece ring stamped number?
9)Mount ring stamped number?
10)Mount base stamped number
11)Mount type (high or low)?
12)Nosecap ears modified for sight adjustment?
13)Kingscrew swivel fitted?
14)Preservative paint under woodwork?
15)Cheekpiece fitted to butt?
16)Comments? (anything you think needs a mention eg extra markings etc...)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JollyGreenSlugg
Gunboards Super Premium Member
Australia
453 Posts
Posted - 04/04/2006 : 08:26:19 AM
Hi folks,
I thought I might add my two bob's worth...
1. Serial number - 93210
2. Action make - Lithgow
3. Action date - 1917
4. Scope number - 274
5. Mount number - None visible
6. Ring number - 274
7. Date marking on butt - None, wood was replaced or sanded/polished
8. High or Low mount - High
9. Preservative paint or not - None seen
10. Cheekpiece - None
11. triggerguard king screw - swivel type
12. Nosecap - appears to be a replacement (mismatch), no holes
13. Barrel date - Replacement MA62
14. Butt length - appears to be normal
15. rubber eyepiece - None
Cheers,
Matt
Proud custodian of a 1889 Lee-Metford MkI*, a 1912 BSA No1 MkIII (with volley sights), a 1915 Lithgow No1 MkIII H (with volley sights), a 1917 Lithgow No1 MkIII HT, a 1917 BSA No1 MkIII*, a 1920 Siamese Contract No1 MkIII*, a 1941 Lithgow No1 MkIII*, a Maltby No4 Mk1, a 1945 No5 and a 1953 Fazakerley No4 Mk2. You can never have too many Lee-Enfields! I have an 1896 Long Lee I, a P14, a 1940 Lithgow No1 MkIII, a 1943 Lithgow No1 MkIII* and a 1942 Longbranch No4 Mk1* on the way. I'm still looking for a pre-SMLE carbine, an SMLE MkI, a 50s Lithgow and an 80s Ishapore though! One can dream!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Son
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
Australia
1167 Posts
Posted - 04/04/2006 : 10:45:55 AM
Go Matt!!!!!!
I had just looked at your pics etc on the LE forum and was going to PM you the updated survey questions. No matter, mate... I'll log your info into my spreadsheet from this (Vulch put the original set of Q's up here ages ago, I've been recording input and answering owner questions ever since) and send you some info on where to look for other stuff on the rifle.
I'll bet you don't sleep tonight!
Cheers, Brad.
YGT>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
angus9132
Gunboards Member
Australia
13 Posts
Posted - 04/28/2006 : 7:44:03 PM
G'day all
I have in my collection a scope and mounts as well as bases . The bases and the mounts have the same serial numbers , 1952 . The scope is not numbered . They are all in apear unissued and are in brand new condition. Does anyone have any info on the serial no's ??
Regards
Angus9132
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dogface
Gunboards Member
USA
12 Posts
Posted - 04/28/2006 : 10:17:02 PM
Originally posted by angus9132
G'day all
I have in my collection a scope and mounts as well as bases . The bases and the mounts have the same serial numbers , 1952 . The scope is not numbered . They are all in apear unissued and are in brand new condition. Does anyone have any info on the serial no's ??
Regards
Angus9132
I don't know about the serial numbers, but your scope would look good enough on an H.T. I have that needs one. Are you willing to part with it? I would be willing to part with the H.T., but it is nearly impossible to get one into or out of Australia. It would be much easier to ship the scope to the States, I think? What is your opinion?
Download Attachment:
42.39 KB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Son
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
Australia
1167 Posts
Posted - 04/30/2006 : 02:12:30 AM
quote:
Originally posted by angus9132
G'day all
I have in my collection a scope and mounts as well as bases . The bases and the mounts have the same serial numbers , 1952 . The scope is not numbered . They are all in apear unissued and are in brand new condition. Does anyone have any info on the serial no's ??
Regards
Angus9132
G'day Angus, I'll e-mail you about the serial numbers, info directly from my research.
Cheers, Brad.
Dogface, even though your rifle was a highmount, and the set Angus has would almost certainly be a lowmount, it would probably be impossible to find a scope with high mounts on it short of someone stripping out another rifle. So any Aussie Patt 18 scope with mounts on it is better than none, mate. I've got you down as needing one, any I see I'll give you a heads-up about.
YGT>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OzzyDavid
Gunboards Member
Australia
34 Posts
Posted - 07/03/2006 : 11:05:59 AM
Just a question.. What happened to all the rifles that may have been partly assembled when the contract was cut short? the scope i have doesnt have any numbers on it. the rifle i have is # 74800 1917 no1 mk3 maade at Lithgow it is fitted with a heavy barrel with sold out of service marks i cant see the date on it as the front base covers it. There doesnt seem to be a serial no on the barrel. The rifle has been used as a target rifle at some time. The scope was given to me about 15 years ago.. I was once told by someone well known in the enfield world that some sniper rifles could have been made up in unit workshops and no records would have been kept.Is it possible that rifles were made up of the spare parts left over at Lithgow and sold out of service to the public after the war as made up rifles?And if so would they be considered as collector pieces? I cant even remember how i came by the rifle with the bases attached.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Son
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
Australia
1167 Posts
Posted - 07/04/2006 : 10:28:12 AM
G'day OzzyDavid and welcome to what is probably the most helpfull and friendly forums on the net. I'm also in NSW and a Lee Enfield collector, mostly hang out on the Lee Enfield Forum, British Gun Pub and the .22 forum as well as here for the purpose of gathering info and helping answer any questions I can from my research into Lithgow HT's.
Now, as for your question.... The order of assembly meant that rifles set aside for conversion were brought into the workshop as completed ones went out. So when the contract was cancelled the remaining rifles would have either been left in factory storage as standard rifles or returned to Military stores. Because only the serial numbers of completed rifles were recorded, there is no way of knowing if any other particular rifle had been earmarked as a candidate for conversion.
There is a complete list of the HT serial numbers in Ian Skennerton's book "The Lee Enfield Story". From this list obtained from the Lithgow Small Arms Museum and information painstakingly researched by Mr Skennerton in his books a lot can be found out. I have gone on a different track by recording some specific details from rifles I've either inspected personally or info sent to me by owners all over the world. From this some conclusions can be made about the manufacturing process and used to confirm to a degree the authenticity of an individual rifle.
There would not have been any big amount of "partially completed" rifles, and all the parts used were either already on the rifle and gauged as ok to keep or from stores of new made parts, (all of which were standard bits except the barrel and scope set). The only exception to this was the scope and mount sets. The whole amount of 2500 sets were completed before the cancellation of the rifle, and as only 1613 were used, there would have been 888 sets not used. Some of these were used later for replacements during repairs/ refurbishment (documented in the L.E.S) and quite a few have turned up over the years and ended up on scopeless rifles (as yours has) or on "repro" rifles made up in civilian hands. One of the reasons for my research is to help buyers identify the "fakes" that are out there.
One factor is the numbers stamped on the bases on the rifle and ring mounts on the scope, as well as on almost every part of the scope itself. More than half of the rifles I have info on (over 50) either have miss-matched scopes (rifle serial number engraved on the scope tube not matching number on rifle), or no number on the scope (one of the unused left-over scopes)
If you could check the numbers on the front of the bases (see the pic on page 1 of this thread posted 31/3/06) and the numbers on the rings as well as on the brass ring at the eyepiece end of the scope (very small) and confirm the rifle serial number I'll be able to tell you more about it.
If you say it's alright I'll email you the updated question list for my survey. All info on specific rifles and their locations/ owners is kept confidential, but I will answer any other questions contributers to the survey have.
We can get onto the collector value of "built-up" or "repro" rifles later too.
Cheers,
Brad.
YGT>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
superbee
Gunboards Member
Canada
76 Posts
Posted - 12/23/2006 : 3:15:39 PM
Hi.I like to add mine to the list.
1- serial#28526
2- lithgow
3- 1915
4- scope # erased
5- mount # 1423
6- ring # 1464 same # on brass ring
7- date on butt 08/45
8- low mount
9- no paint
10- no cheek piece
11- standard king screw
12- has adjustment windows
13-barrel date 1956 barrel replaced??Forend wood is also dated 1956.
14-normal butt
15-no rubber eye piece
scope case has # 59526 written in ink
Glad to finally be in the HT club!
Cheers,Eric
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Son
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
Australia
1167 Posts
Posted - 12/24/2006 : 01:54:06 AM
Welcome aboard, Eric!
Thanks for contributing to the survey. As for all contributors, if there is any questions you might have about these rifles, ask away. I have similar details on over 60 seperate rifles from all over the planet. The only info I won't give out is owner's and rifles exact locations (if known).
I'll collate your rifle's details into my spreadsheet and check the numbers against others and dates etc. May be able to fill in a bit of info on it for you then.
Cheers,
Brad.
YGT>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Terry Willson
Gunboards Member
54 Posts
Posted - 03/28/2007 : 7:27:50 PM
Better late than Never - imported to South africa about 25 yeares ago.
1) 35971
2)Lithgow
3)1915
4)46535 (Electric Pencil)
5)Nil
6)1088
7)Nil
8)High
9)No
10)Yes - Close
11)Standard
12)Windows - one larger than other
13)???? (Not stripping)
14)Normal (Slazenger)
15)No
Regards and greetings from South Africa,
Terry Willson
Terry W
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Son
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
Australia
1167 Posts
Posted - 03/29/2007 : 08:14:37 AM
Hello, Terry.
Welcome aboard the Gunboards group of forums. If Lee Enfield rifles are of interest to you, there is a very good bunch of people on the Lee Enfield forum. I guess you have an interest in your Lithgow sniper! First one I've noted from South Africa. So far I have gathered details on over 80 rifles, and to people who contribute details as you have, I will answer any questions I can about these rifles, except their exact locations or any info on the owners. That stuff (if known) remains confidential.
One other thing, since Vulch initially set this list of questions, I had refined it a little further and provided a picture to help owners find the markings on the scope, mount rings and mount bases.
Here is the pic, could you please double check your rifle for numbers.
Thanks again for the details, is there anything I can do for you?
Cheers from Australia
Brad (Son)
YGT>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
enfield_addict
Gunboards Member
USA
18 Posts
Posted - 03/30/2007 : 02:25:12 AM
fun
It's not MY fault for becoming an Enfield Addict!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Terry Willson
Gunboards Member
54 Posts
Posted - 04/03/2007 : 4:17:58 PM
Dear Brad,
Thanks for your reply. I note your arrowed picture, but the only indicated marking that I can find is that minute one on the brass rim of the eyepiece. I originally exchanged the rifle from an Australian collector in 1973.
I have a great interest in the Lee Metford/Enfield range and althogether have about 48 in my collection including 5 sniping rifles (Martin, Periscopic Prism scoped No.1 Mk IIIs, the Lithgow, No4 Mk 1(T) and an L42A1.
My e-mail address is [email protected] (PLEASE note the double "l" in Willson)and I'd be very happy to correspond individually with others having similar interests. In addittion to my Lees I have a fairly compelte range of the British military muzzle loaders, Sniders and Martinis in both .450 and .303 calibre. I'm particularly interested in the weapons of the Natal Volunteers as used in the Zulu and Boer Wars.
Regards,
Terry
Terry W
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DEMO
Starting Member
Australia
1 Posts
Posted - 07/09/2007 : 07:51:26 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi all
Here is my sniper details.
Serial no 37349
Lithgow action
1916
Matching scope
Mount no 1288
Ring no 1819(matching brass ring)
Blank butt
Low mount
No paint
No cheekpiece
Standard trigger screw
Nosecap windows
Barrel 10/54(FTR'D)
Butt length ?
No rubber eye piece
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Son
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
Australia
1167 Posts
Posted - 07/10/2007 : 7:36:03 PM
G'day DEMO and welcome to the forums. I've been gathering this data for a couple of years now, so if there is any questions you would like answered about these rifles I'll do my best to help you out. When I get your answers input into my spreadsheets, I may have another question or two and possibly some info straight off about your rifle. If Lee Enfields are of interest to you, go to forum 44 at the link below. Lots of friendly people, quite a few of us aussies as well.
Cheers, Son. (NSW)
http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=55
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YGT>
....and here's one of the pictures that didn't transfer with the messages. The marking locations on the scope and mounts.
Attachments
-
45.8 KB Views: 90