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I copied this serial number list from old board think it need modifacation but it's a start
mcgoo


Mle. 1886 and Mle. 1886 M93

MAS
1887 .... F 6990 to F 23472
1888 .... H 26647 to G 58605
1889 .... J 81652 to M 8071
1890 .... N 55058 to FG 14688
1891 .... FH 97642
1892
1893
1894
1895
1896
1897
1898
1899
1900 .... FM 1170
1901
1902 .... FJ or FP 78160
1903
1904
1916 .... FL 19542 ... AD 8695

MAC
1887
1888 .... B 13888 to C 20003
1889 .... D 48384 to E 19378
1890 .... AD 49459
1891
1892
1893
1894
1895
1896
1897
1898
1899
1900
1901
1902
1903
1904

MAT
1887
1888
1889 .... S 38356
1890
1891 .... RS 92520
1892
1893
1894 .... ST 9979 to ST 34492 D and D
1895 .... ST 48846 to TS 63387 D and D
1896
1897
1898
1899
1900
1901
1902
1903
1904
1905 .... S 342 N B and L
1915 .... AD 67281 N J and B
1916 .... C 79867 N
1917 ....
1918 .... B 20137 N LP B and B, ER 2255 N
1920 .... RL 67581 R and L, S 83219 N ? and ?, L 6654 L and B, ? 92582 N L and U
1922 .... S 26735 N L and B
1923 .... L 44049 N L and C
1925 .... L 13822 N L and G
1925 .... T 34833 N L and C
1934 .... P 72642
1936 .... P 40474 B and D, AC 2821 B and D
1938 .... B 13805 B and D

MAP
1917 .... AC 83082 to FG 12312

EDB
1916 .... E 42149 to L 92773
 

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1886/93 Tulle
serial number 651, stock, receiver, floorplate.
bolt T51597
stamps LP, N, MA, T1924 N,circle L, circle C.
 

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Mle 1886 M93 MAT 1890 ? 44153

Mle 1886 M93
MAT 1890 ? 44153
AR, double circle L, circle H

Sort of looks like a T. Tried to upload photos but our slower than dial-up, haji satellite feed has failed me again.

R,
chaj
 

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moconnor,

I believe that your Lebel is from the R series which was the first prefix used by MAT. I do not know what the symbol or letter is to the left of the R, or what its significance is.

Very interesting Lebel...early ones like that still have their early barrels are scarce.


Are there any other makings visible?



FK
 

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FK - I added a few pics to my post above that show some of the underside barrel markings and the stock. The s/n in the stock is kind of tough to see and may or may not be the same as that on the barrel. - moconnor
 

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Ma c 1887

Can't make out the prefix letter, but 68618. Also an MA T 1921, can't see the prefix letters, but looks like 55448.
 

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For your MAC 1887, it is the first year this weapon was really produced (in the second half of 1886, only prototypes were made), so your 68618 is certainly an "A". Only 58 500 lebel 1886 have been produced (finished) this year at the MAC and 146 200 the following year. The year of reception (stamped on the stock) should have been 1888. Unlike the MAS, we don't have the production by month for this period, it is hard to be more precise.
Your MAT 1921 has been obviously rebarreled (date of the official decision to cease the production of the model 1886 : may 11th 1920).The prefix letter for weapons originally produced at the MAT could have been : R, S, T, RS, ST, TS and may be RT, SR and TR. But since your rifle has been rebarreled, the prefix could be everything as you can see on the list posted by mcgoo. The MAT is certainly the arsenal on which we have the least informations and the contribution of the owners of MAT made Lebels are very usefull. Unlike the MAC and the MAS, we don't know the production by year of the model 1886, excepted for 1890 (135 000, top of the production for the MAT if we believe a report of 1922). The documents being not clear, the total production of the MAT between 1886 and 1895 can be estimated, at best, between 504 000 and 804 000 (yes, I know, it is definitely not precise).
For the other arsenals :
MAC :
1887 : 58500; 1888 : 146200; 1889 : 245300; 1890 : 286850; 1891 : 115000; 1892 : 54910 (provisionnal end of production, restarted during WWI)
MAS :
1887 : 73200; 1888 : 200636; 1889 : 389887; 1890 : 426000; 1891 : 160000; 1892 : 105000; 1893 : 70000; 1894 : 30000; 1895 : 14000 (waiting for more data)
The number of 1886 produced during WWI is not precisely known, but more or less 200 000.
A report of 1922 says that in august 1914, there was 2 880 000 model 1886, 300 000 had to be refurbished (the text is not clear, 300 000 added to the 2 880 000 others or part of these?)
 

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Okay, I turned over the MA T 1921 rifle, hanging on my wall, and behold! It was actually a Chattelerault action, rebarrelled in 1921. The serial # is obscured, many years of gunk. I'll try to uncover it. My 1886R35 is a Tulle action, but the barrel is MA C 1938.
 

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With that many Lebels made, you'd think they would be more common today. I guess the '39-'45 war gobbled up many of them.
 

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If I remember well what has been written in different issues of the french magazine "La Gazette des Armes", In October and november 1914, the losses of rifles (not only broken and repaired) were 40 000 per month (!). It is said that 1 500 000 mod 1886 M93 have survived WWI. How much have survived the following world war, the colonial wars, the decisions of the government to destroy outdated weapons instead of selling these?
 

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written sources say 25 000 produced at the MAT between 1936 and 1939. The barrels were made by various makers : MAC (years 1938, like yours, and 1939 already seen), MAP (All the weapons seen had a barrel with the year 1936), MAT (1938), MF (years 1937, 1938 and 1939 already seen) and SACM (one known, year 1937). Two variants : The first one has kept the original stock sling swivel, the second one has a bar for the sling in the way of the M16 mousqueton.
 

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Here's 2 more:M86/93 MAC 1892 AC851XX; R35 SACM 1937 Looks like T(?)R14XX (photo below) w/stock swivel; both Chatellerault receivers
 

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It is indeed TR. Congratulations for having an R35 with SACM barrel. According to the written sources only 4000 barrels have been made by this private firm (which did also 25 000 rear sights for this model of weapon : it explains why you can find everywhere this quantity which can be considered as a minimum). The data about the other makers which took part in the production of this model is unknown.
With your weapon, we know the data about 16 differents R35. 6 with MAC barrels (1937:1; 1938:4; 1939:1), 4 with MF barrels (1937:1; 1938:2; 1939:1), 3 with MAP barrels (all made in 1936), 2 with SACM barrels (both in 1937), one made with a MAT barrel of 1938 (MAT was in charge of the assembly of the whole weapon).
 

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Trying to find the serial number on my 86/93. It is marked MA S1894 on right of barrel and where the serial number should be on the left it is marked CC with M in a cirle stamped twice. There are no other numbers on the rifle apart from the date which also in on the roundal on the stock. The rifle is in near new condition having come from the Kynock collection here in England.
Anyone know why there is no number? If you would like pictures let me know.
 
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