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Wow. Oh how the mighty have fallen.

I like how the US has just completely abandoned the Monroe doctrine.

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Bush Excluded by Latin Summit as China, Russia Loom (Update1)
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By Joshua Goodman

Dec. 15 (Bloomberg) -- Latin American and Caribbean leaders gathering in Brazil tomorrow will mark a historic occasion: a region-wide summit that excludes the United States.

Almost two centuries after President James Monroe declared Latin America a U.S. sphere of influence, the region is breaking away. From socialist-leaning Venezuela to market-friendly Brazil, governments are expanding military, economic and diplomatic ties with potential U.S. adversaries such as China, Russia and Iran.

“Monroe certainly would be rolling over in his grave,” says Julia Sweig, director of the Latin America program at the Council of Foreign Relations in Washington and author of the 2006 book “Friendly Fire: Losing Friends and Making Enemies in the Anti-American Century.”

The U.S., she says, “is no longer the exclusive go-to power in the region, especially in South America, where U.S. economic ties are much less important.”

Since November, Russian warships have engaged in joint naval exercises with Venezuela, the first in the Caribbean since the Cold War; Chinese President Hu Jintao signed a free-trade agreement with Peru; and Brazil invited Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for a state visit.

“While the U.S. remains aloof from a region it no longer sees as relevant to its strategic interests, other countries are making unprecedented, serious moves to fill the void,” says Luiz Felipe Lampreia, Brazil’s foreign minister from 1995 until 2001. “Countries in the region are more aware than ever that they live in a globalized, post-American world.”

A Castro Triumph

The two-day gathering, called by Brazil at a beach resort in Bahia state, is also a diplomatic triumph for Cuban President Raul Castro, making his first trip abroad since taking over from his brother Fidel two years ago. The communist island was suspended from the hemisphere-wide Organization of American States in 1962 over its ties with the former Soviet Union.

“A lot of this is designed to stick it in the eye of the U.S.,” says Peter Romero, the U.S. assistant secretary of state for the Western Hemisphere from 1999 to 2001. “But underlying the bluster, there’s a genuine effort to exploit the gap left by a distant and distracted U.S.”

The effort is most evident in the bloc of countries allied with the anti-American president of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez.

Bolivian President Evo Morales last month expelled the Drug Enforcement Administration, alleging that DEA agents were conspiring to overthrow him; U.S. President George W. Bush dismissed the charges as absurd and suspended trade privileges for the Andean nation.

Drug-War Defeat

In Ecuador, meanwhile, President Rafael Correa has refused to renew the lease on the U.S.’s only military outpost in South America, a critical platform for the U.S. war on drugs.

For Brazil, tomorrow’s summit caps a decade-long diplomatic drive to use its growing economic and political stability to play a bigger role in the world.

While little concrete action is expected from the first-ever Latin American and Caribbean Summit on Integration and Development, the fact that the U.S. wasn’t invited has symbolic importance, says Lampreia.

The summit reinforces such regional initiatives as the Union of South American Nations, which was formed in May by 12 countries to mediate conflicts such as political violence in Bolivia, bypassing the U.S.-dominated OAS.

Thomas Shannon, the top U.S. diplomat for Latin America, says the nature of American influence is only changing, not declining, as the region matures.

No Invitation Sought

The U.S. “didn’t ask to be invited” to the summit, he says, although it had discussed with Brazil and Mexico ways the meeting’s agenda could be used during the U.S.-backed Summit of the Americas, in April in Trinidad and Tobago.

“We don’t subscribe to the hydraulic theory of diplomacy that when one country is up, the other is down -- that if China and Russia are in the area our influence has somehow waned,” Shannon said in a telephone interview.

The fact that “there’s no warfare, weapons proliferation, suicide bombers or jihadists” in Latin America may make its issues “less urgent,” though no less important, Shannon said. The U.S. remains the region’s dominant investor and trading partner: Foreign aid to Colombia to fight drug traffickers and Marxist rebels totals $700 million a year, and remittances from Latin Americans living in the U.S. totaled $66.5 billion last year.

Monroe’s Doctrine

The Monroe Doctrine, which dates back to 1823, declared Latin America off-limits to European powers. Whether welcomed by the region or not, it has been invoked whenever real or imagined security threats to U.S. interests arise, says Gaddis Smith, a retired Yale University historian of American foreign policy.

“Its essence is unilateralism; no Latin American country had any say in it,” says Smith, whose more than a dozen books on American foreign policy include “The Last Years of the Monroe Doctrine.”

The real battle is for a larger share of the region’s abundant resources and expanding economies, and China has led the way.

Two-way trade with the region shot up 12-fold since 1995 to $110 billion last year, according to the Inter-American Development Bank. China’s share of the region’s imports also jumped, to 24 percent from 9.8 percent in 1990, while the U.S. share shrunk to 34 percent from 43 percent. Two years after reaching a bilateral free-trade agreement, China’s demand for copper made it Chile’s biggest export market in 2007, replacing the U.S.

Hu’s Trips

Since making his first of three trips to Latin America in 2004, China’s President Hu Jintao has spent more time in the region than Bush -- 22 days to 20 for the U.S. president. In October, as the global credit crunch dried up lending in the region, China joined the Inter-American Development Bank with a $350 million loan to finance small businesses. This month it pledged $10 billion in loans to state-controlled Petroleo Brasileiro SA so Brazil can develop the Western Hemisphere’s largest oil discovery since 1976.

“The Chinese play up the development side of diplomacy so much better than the Americans,” says William Ratliff, a research fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution who has a Ph.D. in Chinese and Latin American history. “Deals come with none or very few strings attached.”

Even Colombia, which is spending $115,000 a month lobbying the U.S. Congress to approve a stalled free-trade pact, signed an investment treaty last month with China. During this year’s U.S. campaign, President-elect Barack Obama said he opposed the accord over concerns that Colombia isn’t doing enough to stamp out violence against labor organizers.

Colombian President Alvaro Uribe today canceled his plans for the summit to monitor rescue efforts involving 200,000 people affected by flooding over the weekend.

Arms Deals

Changing relationships are also evident in arms deals. Chavez turned to Russia for at least $4.4 billion in weapons after the U.S. blocked sales of aircraft parts. Brazil, the region’s largest economy, is also shopping around: Defense Minister Nelson Jobimsaid in Washington this month that his government will only buy weapons from countries that agree to transfer technology for local production.

Plans to purchase 36 new fighter jets, in which Boeing’s F- 18 is competing for a contract against Stockholm-based Saab AB and France’s Dassault Systemes SA, “can only be justified politically if they contribute to national development,” Jobim said.

Brazil may sign a deal with France for four nuclear submarines intended to help secure its oil basins in the Atlantic when French President Nicolas Sarkozy visits Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva this month.

Reactivating a Fleet

The U.S. plan to reassert its naval presence by reactivating the Fourth Fleet after 58 years to patrol the Caribbean has triggered negative reactions ranging from Chavez’s threat to sink the convoys to the more-diplomatic Lula’s demand for explanations from the Bush administration.

Latin American leaders are looking to Obama to restore relations after the Bush presidency’s initial pledges of greater engagement gave way to a focus on the 9/11 terror attacks and wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet the honeymoon with Obama may be short-lived, says Michael Shifter, vice president of the Inter- American Dialogue in Washington. He says that the issues that have dominated Latin American relations -- including Cuba, immigration and U.S. trade barriers on agricultural products -- may remain in dispute.

“Latin America wants the U.S. to be engaged, but in very different terms that it has in the past,” says Shifter. “In any case, they’re not waiting around for the U.S. to change its mindset.”
 

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Latin America has a habit of getting into snits and insulting the US. This is one more of them. Next time they need help, they'll be back asking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Latin America has a habit of getting into snits and insulting the US. This is one more of them. Next time they need help, they'll be back asking.

I know. And we're chumps for it.

Did you see that Bolivia (or Ecuador) defaulted on their international debt (again) over the weekend? Second time in 10 years. Of course we all remember how in the early 90's/late 80's all of latin America defaulted on their debt.

And the powers to be will just end up lending them the money next year. Suckers!
 

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I know. And we're chumps for it.

Did you see that Bolivia (or Ecuador) defaulted on their international debt (again) over the weekend? Second time in 10 years. Of course we all remember how in the early 90's/late 80's all of latin America defaulted on their debt.

And the powers to be will just end up lending them the money next year. Suckers!

Yep. Suckers indeed.
 

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Oh noes! That's terrible! That is in no way similar to the US sticking its missiles, ships and soldiers in countries bordering Russia, China and Iran! Oh Gosh!
 

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ward churchills puppet has spoken.
Funny, someone even attempts to criticized US foreign policy and they are equated with a 9/11 conspiracy theorist.
 

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Funny, someone even attempts to criticized US foreign policy and they are equated with a 9/11 conspiracy theorist.
Your arguement here would make sense if it was your 2nd post instead of 4000+. People here know you, and know your attitude and your opinions. Do you REALLY wonder why most folks around here don't take you seriously?

BTW, I agree, we do put missles, and butt in, in places we probably should not. And if we do, we should not be offended when it pisses people off.
 

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ward churchills puppet has spoken.
+1 He seems to be going through that phase that some spoiled kids go through where he thinks it makes him look "cool" to denigrate the country that he's been allowed to live in despite his refusing to serve. He really should be down on his knees thanking God and the rest of us that this country doesn't just make it's teens serve when they get out of high school like other countries do.

Could you imagine what he'd do had he been born in Israel and found himself faced with mandatory service? I'm betting that he'd be in the hospital with a self-inflicted wound within a week. He's exactly the kind who'd shoot himself in the foot to avoid serving and then bash his country from his hospital bed via the government-provided internet connection. :rolleyes:
 

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No, if put in a position to have to serve his country, he would be the idiot that every company commander hates; the know-it-all, barracks lawyer who occupies 90% of the CO's time with his stupid little complaints and comments that are just short of insubordination. It's a shame when other adults have to make up for the shortfalls of people like MB's parents.
 

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+1 He seems to be going through that phase that some spoiled kids go through where he thinks it makes him look "cool" to denigrate the country
You must be going through that phase where you're afraid to question the actions of your government. That's a sheeple mentality. But go ahead, continue your silly assertions that I am "denigrating the country."

Say, what will you do when they ban certain types of guns? Will you criticize the policy, or be too afraid at the idea of being called "unpatriotic?"
 

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No, if put in a position to have to serve his country, he would be the idiot that every company commander hates; the know-it-all, barracks lawyer who occupies 90% of the CO's time with his stupid little complaints and comments that are just short of insubordination. It's a shame when other adults have to make up for the shortfalls of people like MB's parents.

I suppose I could see that, too. He'd mouth off and shirk and bring down enough squad punishment that he'd be the recipient of a blanket party or two and the very next day his parents' congressman would be barraged with claims of abuse and demands for investigation. :rolleyes:
 

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I'm sorry, but every time a thread goes into a "he didn't/won't serve his country and join the military," all I can think of is Richard Cheney and the other republicans who also opted out.

Something is missing in the thought process here with that arguement.
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Talk about wrong. When I typed in D**k Cheny the forum deleted it and added ****, so I had to refer to our VP as Richard.

Reminds me of a former boss we all called Richard Cranium,....my boss, not ****!!!!!!!

Well I guess I messed all that up, might as well turn myself in to HS,(Homeland Security) for my waterboarding and confession.
 

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Can't say I have ever heard of the Monroe doctrine,but it sounds pretty bizarre,especially as it dates back to 1823.The US was not any sort of a power at all back then,and certainly in no position to be dictating to European powers what they could or could not do.Frankly,the whole thing sounds fairly arrogant,south american countries can deal with whom they want they are sovereign countries after all.
 

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while you are thinking of Cheney, you might want to add Chucky Schumer, Klinton, and Algore to your list. AND for that matter Robert MacNamara and his "Whiz kids" who gave us that "Black Wall" should be near the top of the list. Then add Chuck Dodd.
As for South America, I really don't care. As stated they will be whining for money as soon as their dictatorsahips get into financial trouble. Let them ask the russians, Iranians and chinese for a handout.
 

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As for South America, I really don't care. As stated they will be whining for money as soon as their dictatorsahips get into financial trouble. Let them ask the russians, Iranians and chinese for a handout.

I agree. Also let the russian, iranian and chinese tourists help support their economies.
 

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while you are thinking of Cheney, you might want to add Chucky Schumer, Klinton, and Algore to your list. AND for that matter Robert MacNamara and his "Whiz kids" who gave us that "Black Wall" should be near the top of the list. Then add Chuck Dodd.
As for South America, I really don't care. As stated they will be whining for money as soon as their dictatorsahips get into financial trouble. Let them ask the russians, Iranians and chinese for a handout.
Well, IIRC, Robert (Oh so VERY) STRANGE MacNamara in fact served during War Two, in the Chair Farces. One of the pioneers of operational analysis, I think. He didn't, of course, actually go in harm's way...
 

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I see it as a strategic move by Russia and China: they know we're bogged down in the Iraq/Afghan mess, and we can't rattle our sabers down south now.

Neither Russia nor China wants any wars. They are just being brazen about competing economically down there.

The Monroe Doctrine is worthless without military backing. I think we can now consider it dead.

CDFingers
 

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I'm sorry, but every time a thread goes into a "he didn't/won't serve his country and join the military," all I can think of is Richard Cheney and the other republicans who also opted out.
Yeah? Did they sit on web forums all day bashing our country and sneering at anyone who supports or serves our elected government like Mouseboy does?

He's so eager for the appearance of some "tyranny" that will give him the chance to actually be somebody that he's completely poisoned himself against everything that our country stands for. He spends years dreaming of the day when he can take his dad's Siaga and waddle his fat little self off to battle against US troops because he wants to portray himself as a warrior and a patriot and the sad reality is that we have two wars going on right now that he's refusing to go help in.

Hell, he could have enlisted, served, and returned with honor, glory and GI benefits by now, and probably with a real appreciation for our country and the respect of many people on this board. But he apparently prefers to remain a trash-talking little punk, which is, of course, his right. However when he then insistson coming around his betters who have served every day and showing disrespect, well that's why he gets beaten like a rented mule and is appreciated only by Ghostcat, who is basically just an older, fatter Mouseboy. :rolleyes:
 

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Point being, many Republicians that we admire around here did not in fact serve in the military and went out of their way to aviod it. Democrats too, but who cares about them.

I know you all hate MB, but you need some new material, or just ignore him. There is time though, and time changes everything, perhaps in an future election, now that natural born is not required, when Putin and Chazev are running on the Rebublician ticket, (Putin says it's all a mistake, he was born in Moscow Idaho and Chazev says he was really an anchor baby, against the democratic ticket of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Satan himself, (they want change), you might feel like voting for the 3rd party ticket of Mauserboy and Amtraker, (although they have no chance of winning, and only one was in the military)............

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Even the Al Gore served in Vietnam, by the way, as a writer or something but they did give him an M-16. He did seem to think it was unusally warm there though.

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And a heads up as we are all hating Carcano today....................
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"Ah don't mind other folks preacher, unless they bunch up, that's when they start lynch mobs, and armies!" -Hipshot Percussion
 
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