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Hmm. I may be mistaken, certainly, or reliant on dated information... Some earlier European collectors posts indicated an earlier wartime laminate stock on M44 carbines? Do you have a link on the "all laminate stocks are post war" issue?

Thanks for the correction.
 

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Hmm. I may be mistaken, certainly, or reliant on dated information... Some earlier European collectors posts indicated an earlier wartime laminate stock on M44 carbines? Do you have a link on the "all laminate stocks are post war" issue?

Thanks for the correction.


I have a '44 M44 Tula hex in laminate stock with the wrist bolt/pin. However, not sure how to date when that stock came together with the action. And there are quite a few others that have a M44 in Laminant. I also have a pair of laminate PU snipers that came from the current Molot and GW imports over the past year. Both Izhevsk and #'s matching. Just not sure when those stocks joined the PU action either. Had to be very late or post war.
 

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Hmm. I may be mistaken, certainly, or reliant on dated information... Some earlier European collectors posts indicated an earlier wartime laminate stock on M44 carbines? Do you have a link on the "all laminate stocks are post war" issue?

Thanks for the correction.


I have a '44 M44 Tula hex in laminate stock with the wrist bolt/pin. However, not sure how to date when that stock came together with the action. And there are quite a few others that have a M44 in Laminant. I also have a pair of laminate PU snipers that came from the current Molot and GW imports over the past year. Both Izhevsk and #'s matching. Just not sure when those stocks joined the PU action either. Had to be very late or post war.
unless they are acceptance stamps on the buttstock, they are replacements.
 

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Well, that is just it: For a good long while laminate stocks were much more commonly encountered on carbines than on the 1891/30s. In fact, laminates were so common on carbines that it was really no big deal. I distinctly recall my first on a 1944 Izhevsk M44 that looked all the world like it had been used a fence post in a Western Siberian goat pen... Some collectors, perhaps very much mistaken, asserted that there were variations in laminate stocks and that there was a discernible "wartime" laminate. Now, this might be, to re-use/quote RyanE's trenchant phrase: "Nonsense on stilts" but where is the evidence that all laminates are from as late as the 1950s? :?
 

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Well, that is just it: For a good long while laminate stocks were much more commonly encountered on carbines than on the 1891/30s. In fact, laminates were so common on carbines that it was really no big deal. I distinctly recall my first on a 1944 Izhevsk M44 that looked all the world like it had been used a fence post in a Western Siberian goat pen... Some collectors, perhaps very much mistaken, asserted that there were variations in laminate stocks and that there was a discernible "wartime" laminate. Now, this might be, to re-use/quote RyanE's trenchant phrase: "Nonsense on stilts" but where is the evidence that all laminates are from as late as the 1950s? :?
There is no evidence that any laminate stocks were issued by the Soviets before the late 50s. None.

Factory installed stocks are marked with various acceptance stamps. In the case of Izhevsk, you will see the CCCP roundel (or PC?CP prior to 1938) and a large circle with the Cyrillic initials of the chief inspector or commander along with various minor stamps. No rifle left the factory without being inspected and marked.

There are no recorded laminate stocks with appropriate factory acceptance. There a quite a lot of unissued M44 from 1946-1948 production imported and none are in laminate. Not one. SKS rifles produced 1949-1955 are also entirely in birch. Factory marked SKS laminates don't show up until the undated sterile models produced sometime after 1955. By the time the AKM is introduced in 1960, all wood furniture is laminate.

Laminate 91/30 and M44 stocks are arsenal replacements all of which were manufactured somewhere between the 1960s and the 1980s.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
You would think that the M91/30 would have been thoroughly obsolete by the 1960's (even by Soviet standards). Wonder why they bothered investing in new stocks for them.
 

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Fair enough. I was hoping for more documentation than a simple "nyet" however emphatically stated. ;)

Here is the dated info that puts initial laminates in 1944/45:

http://www.mosinnagant.net/USSR/Model-1938-Carbine.asp

From the site:
"The m/38 could be used in the m/44 style stock without any modifications. Of note in the stock production of late 1943 and early1944, was the initial use by Soviet weapons factories of laminated stocks. The use of these stocks could be explained in a number of ways. The use of laminated stocks on weapons was common place with the German forces and resulted in a strong, dense stock that was resistant to warping caused by weather conditions. It also was an economical way to make use of scrap wood that was not suitable for a solid style one piece stock. Thus more stocks could be made from the same amount of material and or from inferior blanks that would not be suitable for use as a solid wood stock. It also increased material efficiency with no loss of quality. These new laminated stocks began to appear on the m/38 and m/44 carbines in 1943-1944. They were found in two styles. An unvarnished/unstained version with a very blonde light colored finish and a typical Russian red varnished version. Laminated stocks were not however limited to carbine use; some m/91-30 rifles were being issued as well with laminated stocks-again in the two color variants. Both standard infantry rifles and the telescopically sighted sniper versions can be found in the laminated furniture. Nearly all of these laminated stocks will have the rear wrist reinforcing recoil lug installed to aid in the wrist from cracking and to add some stability to the laminated wood in this critcal area."

[emphasis added]
 

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Just curious- wood stocks require considerable inspection due to the faults of wood, knots splits etc. Would the laminates require that as well? I would think that the process would eliminate the need for some of the marks. That being said- I cannot explain final proofing marks, except for what Vic quoted in other threads on this topic... I would suggest that the limited make of laminate stocks would have a very limited survival rate from the period in arsenal condition... Don't know, just adding fuel to the discussion. If they were produced till the 1980's, there should be plentiful documentation of that.
Just my curiousity on this snow day (another foot!!!!)
JMG
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I know that some folks don't care for laminates because they generally have electropencilled serial numbers on bolt, floorplate, and buttplate and many have poor bores. I think the laminated wood looks pretty nice, though. (Recently acquired 1933 Tula hex in laminated stock):


 

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Just curious- wood stocks require considerable inspection due to the faults of wood, knots splits etc. Would the laminates require that as well? I would think that the process would eliminate the need for some of the marks. That being said- I cannot explain final proofing marks, except for what Vic quoted in other threads on this topic... I would suggest that the limited make of laminate stocks would have a very limited survival rate from the period in arsenal condition... Don't know, just adding fuel to the discussion. If they were produced till the 1980's, there should be plentiful documentation of that.
Just my curiousity on this snow day (another foot!!!!)
JMG
Laminates would have been stamped the same as the arctic birch stocks. Quality control and acceptance processes for the rifles would not have changed.
 

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I know that some folks don't care for laminates because they generally have electropencilled serial numbers on bolt, floorplate, and buttplate and many have poor bores. I think the laminated wood looks pretty nice, though.
I have always loved the Mosins with laminated stocks. I did when they were impossible to find and continue to do so now while it's easy and comparatively inexpensive to purchase them.
 
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