[cartoonist]

I was at my local gun store today and was surprised to see laying in the used rack a beautiful Kokura Series 20 Type 99. It was one of those examples that looks as close to unissued as you can get, and in all original condition - unsanded stock with great color and very few dings, nice bluing, AA wings, cleaning rod, and all-matching (though mum ground). Even more, all the screws were staked (except for one on the buttplate that's ever so slightly buggered), the bolt face looked like it had never been fired, and it was full of gooey Japanese cosmoline. I made an offer and took it home for about $250; not super but have done worse.

What surprised me is that the rifle, which is in the 64000 range, appears to have never had a monopod attached. The hole in the rear band for the monopod pin is still full of original cosmoline, and there are no wear marks on the stock or on the front band from a monopod. Since the screws are staked I know it's all original.

So, how's that? An early Type 99, Kokura Series 20, that was supposed to have a monopod but never did!

Pictures soon.

 

[cartoonist]

Just a thought... I have to imagine that such an early series Type 99 still in this condition and packed in cosmoline would have only been found by a G.I. inside a storage crate in a depot or something. Based on the evidence, it seems plausible to theorize that at least some early Type 99s did not leave the factory with a monopod and were stored or perhaps even transported without monopods; maybe the monopods were packed separate from the rifles in the crates, and in some cases like this one, were never mated with a rifle. Has anyone looked at this angle before, and have any evidence to prove or disprove it?

 

[smzeigler]

It sounds like a Nice Rifle.....However..... You are reading too much into your new rifle. All rifles are test fire prior to acceptance by any arsenal - if for no other reason for sighting. So, no such thing as an unfired military accepted rifle. The odds your rifle never had a pod are slim to none. I too have a beautiful S:20, compliments of A-dogs, that by all appearances looks "unissued". It too looks at first glance, not to ever had a pod attached. However, upon close inspection you can see slight impressions in the forend. I suspect you will find the same with yours. Again, great find, but just accept it for what it is, and don't make a story fit a gun. As Doss says, buy the gun, not the story. Oh, please post pictures.

Regards, Shannon

 

[03man]

I'm with shannon on this one. I have seen no evidence that Japanese rifles were packed in cosmolene, or that the Japanese even used it; however, US GIs would have had full access and "believed" in its use for slathering on their rifles to send/take home.

A 20th would have had the pod when originally produced. Sorry, but I don't put much stock in staked screws, I have seen many that looked like they have not been moved, but have been; and of course you can remove a pod without turning any of the remaining screws.

That said, please do post your pictures!

 

[lcliffn48]

Food for thought, some time back, I acquired several brought back items from a veteran, one of which was a series 37 TJK. I commented on the amount of grease/cosmoline on the rifle, his response was that he had bathed it in grease before boxing it up for the long salt air trip home. Apparently it was not uncommon for GIs to do this, which may account for all that grease that's often found on some of these rifles.

 

[cartoonist]

The reason I guessed the cosmoline was Japanese was based on my own experiences: I've had maybe 3-4 Arisakas over the years that were packed with cosmoline inside, and they were without exception always the pristine ones that looked right out of a factory crate. If it were the G.I.s who were packing them in cosmoline, I reasoned I would have seen at least a couple "well seasoned" Arisakas also packed in cosmoline in addition to the pristine ones; however, I have never found any. I do remember my statistics classes well enough to know that my sample size is far too small to make any generalizations, and in light of the above stories of G.I.s packing their Arisakas in cosmoline, I will gladly retract my original assumption that the cosmoline is Japanese. Which makes it plausible that the monopod was simple removed early in the life of this rifle before it made any marks.

I'm not entirely comfortable though dismissing the idea that the Japanese did use cosmoline or something like it (i.e., a reddish viscous grease) which I've seen on 3-4 of my pristine Arisakas.

As an aside, I never suggested the rifle was unfired; I just said it looked as close to unissued as you can get, which is my way of acknowledging there's no such thing as an unfired or unissued rifle. Along a similar vein (i.e., "I am not a newb"), I didn't buy the rifle for its story (it didn't have one), but am definitely guilty of hypothesizing a little too far based on my assumption that the cosmoline was Japanese.


Pictures soon....

 

[03man]

You are right on the "cosmolene" sample size; my sample is some what larger, about 150 rifles, I have yet to find one packed in cosmoline or anything close- so you can understand my comments.

 

[FlipFlop]

My Series 5 T-99 I got awhile back was packed in cosmo and is almost pristine in appearance. It came from a vet's family who did not want it and said the rifle had been kept in his closet until after his death. His family could only give few details about his service except he was a bomber pilot during the war. I still haven't cleaned all the cosmolene out, but the overall appearance of the wood and metal is very nice.

 

[t94nambu]

my mexican type 38 and nagoya 38 ammunition velocity test rifle (both are in mint condition) were both packed in cosmoline and wrapped in craft paper. since these were test rifles in an arsenal, the Japanese would have never packed them in cosmo

 

[smzeigler]

cartoonist,

I am not passing judgement on your experience as a collector. I have no idea of your background. I am commenting on your assertions, and my comments are not intended to be taken personally.

I've seen a few 99s over the years with all sorts of protective stuff on them. I can't say I've every seen a WWII issue can of cosmoline or any cosmoline for that matter, so I have nothing to compare against other than GAA - grease automotive artillery. I think Don and lcliffin48 make good points. I don't know about WWII, but in my experience GAA is readily accessible to most GIs (quart cans to 55 gal drums) and it would likely be a good candidate for use as a preservative on the long trip home. But I can't prove it is GAA. I don't know if the Navy uses GAA or something else to protect and lubricate their equipment. Don't know. I will submit that the Japanese did not pack their rifles for long term storage. They were too busy preparing for the impending invasion of their homeland, short on petrol and it's byproducts (grease) and bombed 24/7 towards the end.

While I do believe the most simple explanation is the most likely, we still have to restrain ourselves from wondering to far from the little facts we do know. I remind myself constantly to accept things as they are and not as I wish them to be. Hence - buy the gun, not the story. Thanks Doss, for your sage bit of advice.

So, has anyone seen cosomline?

Enjoy, Z

 

[03man]

I have a two pound can of GI cosmolene somewhere, I'll try to find it and take a picture. It was/maybe still is a commercially available product.

The US only "preserved" arms in cosmolene for long term storage; I concurr with Shannon that the Japanese had no long term storage horizon to deal with. The Japanese modulated their rifle production in the "off" years to what they needed; by 1937, they were pretty much at full production.

If you've ever seen/used it, the color and smell is un-mistakable. It would take many man hours of work and solvents to remove cosmolene or any similar grease from a case of rifles.

 

[arisakadogs]

As an aside, it seems like almost every metal bayonet scabbard has some kind of grease in it. Anyone else notice this? Has a distinctive smell as well.

 

[gremlin1945]

Cosmolinedirect.com.

 

[fredh]

As an aside, it seems like almost every metal bayonet scabbard has some kind of grease in it. Anyone else notice this? Has a distinctive smell as well.

We've talked this subject before, and, yes, the Japanese did use grease just like everyone else. The wartime Japanese grease does have a distinctive odor, and I sometimes use that as a clue in determining originality when checking a rifle out. I can't describe the odor, but the grease is normally brownish-black in color to dull black. When I took the experimental Garand that I'm rebuilding apart first time, the first thing checked was the operating rod. I knew they had problems with the design of that rod. A quick solution to binding when testing is greasing, and the spring and guts of the rod had plenty of grease. No grease anywhere else on the assembly. Kawamura gave me the magazine for the NSS experimental semi-auto I picked up last year, and it came with the guts greased. Not as often now as it used to be, but the T99 bolt guts were commonly found greased back in the 50s-60s. There's been plenty of time to clean them up since then. Whatever, once recognized, the odor of the Japanese grease is not forgotten. I reckon me and dawgs are the only grease sniffers on the board.

Then there's the stories the Japanese ordnance people told me about their weapons. Oil/grease freezing on firing pins in the T14s in Manchuria in 1931 led to the changes in T14 design and massive recall. And oil leaking out of the oiler on the T22 lmg and down the pants legs and into the boots of the soldier carrying it led ultimately to better gas operation on the T96 and T99. Ordnance didn't trust the designers in the mg competition and demanded the oiler be included on the T96. I'm not familiar enough with the T99 lmg to remember whether it had an oiler or not. Whatever, the oilers on either were seldom used by the soldiers. Don't know about you, but I laughed out loud when told about oilers leaking down the soldier's pants leg and into his shoes. That could be a frigging mess, especially in the right environment.

 

[smzeigler]

Don, thanks. Looking forward to seeing the photos. I will have to check that link at as well. Oh, I smell everything. Especially guns and cloth items. It is a sense not to be ignored when evaluating an item.

Shannon