Gunboards Forums banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Kryptonite member
Joined
·
5,765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I scanned another post, may have missed the "meat," but (1) a registered "knee mortar" Type 89 or 10, can be transferred to another person, (a) It's free if going to a relative after the owner's death, (b) $200 otherwise. (2) A registered dewat knee mortar, 89 or 10, can be transferred (a) to another person at no cost or (b) "reactivated by submitting the proper form and giving Uncle $200. Knee mortars registered as a dewat during the 1960s amnesty did not have to have the hole drilled in the barrel, just decommissioned in a way satisfactory to whatever clerk that was issueing the paper. (3) AN UNREGISTERED KNEE MORTAR CAN NOT BE REGISTERED, PERIOD! Owning a "Wild" (unregistered) knee mortar, 89 or 10, can get you 10 years in prison and/or a $10K fine. DO NOT WRITE, PHONE, OR WALK INTO AN ATF OFFICE WITH AN UNREGISTERED MORTAR AND ASK FOR REGISTRATION PAPERS!!!

Why, because Josh, that's the law! It has to do with any weapon over 50 cal.
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
15,639 Posts
Just to add a little to Ronin's post;
when a grenade discharger or knee mortar is 'deactivated' by drilling the hole and welding the obstruction; it is "removed" from the NFA act and is a piece of metal.

This 'piece of metal' can then be 'reactivatred', legally, by: 1)filing a form 1 with the BATF/Treasury, 2) having it approved, 3) paying the $200 tax; then re-activating the piece, by removing the obstruction and repairing the 'incision'.

This places the weapon back into the NFA controlled area, and it becomes a 'destructive device'; and is thus legal, live, and registered as a destructive device.

Clear as mud right?

Just be aware that the BATF might just send someone out to see the deactivated weapon before approval of the paper work to re-activate same.

The 'key' here is a grenade discharger, knee mortar, or other weapon with greater than 0.50 inch bore is contraband, unless de-activated to BATF specs. Like Ronin says, it can cost you a lot of money and time if you are caught with such contraband.
 

·
Kryptonite member
Joined
·
5,765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
WRONG!! Unless one "destroys" a legal knee mortar or legal dewat which may be what you mean. I had to do this once to sell a Type 10, buyer met my price and paid to have it drilled, he did not want a DD. (selling the thing is one of my many regrets) I wrote ATF, told them the 10 had been "destroyed" (their terminology for one with hole and obstruction) and they removed it from my "record." However, there is no way in hell (Wash. D. C.) that an unregistered mortar, drilled or not, can be registered UNLESS you have a manufacturers license and that is beyond my limited field of knowledge.

Thinking about the above, I'm not sure that T-10 could be reregistered as it was "destroyed" and was no longer a mortar, only a person with the Class 2 Manufacturers license could do it???
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
15,639 Posts
No, this time you are mistaken.

What I wrote is exactly what is in your letter from the BATF. Actually a DD can be 'reactivated' or 'manufactured' by an individual. Read your letter, first paragraph on page 3.

I quote:
" In general, an individual may manufacture a destructive device for personal use by filing a form 1 with ATF's National Firearms Act Branch, passing the required back ground check, and paying the require(sic) fee. You may contact the NFA Branch at 304 616 4500 for more information."

Once the DD is dewatted or 'destroyed' it is removed from the NFA.

You are correct in that a registered, live DD, can be removed from the NFA by deactivating and informing BATF of same.

All this discussion and exchange highlights the ridiculous nature of the regulations.

To anyone considering owning a dewat or live DD, be careful and assure yourself by direct contact and in writing of what you can and cannot do.
 

·
Kryptonite member
Joined
·
5,765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Believe it says, "...may manufacture a destructive device..." i.e. make one from scratch such as making a silencer, don't know what catagory that fits, or making a mortar out of a length of pipe, etc. As I read it nothing is said about rewatting a "destroyed" nonregistered mortar and registering. Why would one want to if it were possible? Any "patch" used to fill the hole would probably be weaker than the barrel, the patch area would have to be ground and the barrel, perhaps the entire mortar, reblued. And the letter you quote goes on to say you can't shoot anything in/from one, plastic round or not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
486 Posts
With the craziness of all these federal laws on MG's and destructive devices, I would just leave a dewat a dewat, regardless of what it is. Much safer that way and as far as a knee mortar goes it most likely wouldn't get much use anyway. Not too many ranges have a "mortar" area! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
367 Posts
Doss is on the $$
03, dewatted is not the same thing as destroyed
I think the "cup" is the controled part of of a KM

Bottom line is if it aint registered now it cant stay "live"
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
15,639 Posts
Absolutely,
that is why it has to be 'destroyed' before it can be registered.

A live KM is contraband, and illegal until destroyed.

Then, if someone wanted to , for some strange reason , to 'create' a KM he could do the form one thing and re-activate it, or for argument's sake, lets say 'make a new one'. Never mind you start with a tube with a hole in it.

And yes, with modern welding techniques, the repair will be as strong as the original tube.

But like we all said, WHY DO IT?

Adogs,
am I arguing again?
 

·
Kryptonite member
Joined
·
5,765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Damn, this thread is getting confusing. Legally you can own an undrilled barrel if you do not own the rest of the mortar or vice versa. You could use such a barrel and after obtaining a manufactirers license and filing the required paperwork/$$$,fabricate a mortar, and the barreel would not have to be drilled first.

But an individual can not file paperwork to legalize/reconstruct a destroyed mortar, there is no paperwork for that purpose. Note, I say "individual." You would have to have a manufacturers license, and that may be what the Form 1 is, an application for such a license.

Don, I wrote the last letter to ATF on this subject , you write the next one!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,023 Posts
Guys...To ease the confusion, from now on just give me all those $100 ,out of the trunk of a car, knee mortors and such and ILL worry about destroying/disposing of them a legal fer yuh, I wont even charge you a fee for my sevices, just mail them to me in a plain brown box and ,then its best ,for your own peice of mind ,to forget it ever happend ...fer that matter ILL do the same for "wild" Mg's too..simply cause Im a heck of a nice guy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,163 Posts
T2,T100,no"cup" or firing mech,so IMHO I'd say not. Now when assembled to a rifle,who knows,heh. BTW,if ye keep writing letters to the Alphabet men in D.C. Doss,they may think you are David Koresh all over again and raid your "compound". I'd let sombody else ask 20 questions for a while. I don't trust the All Too Friendly guys.....
 

·
Kryptonite member
Joined
·
5,765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Well gentlemen (?) I stand corrected, 03hombre is correct, I called ATF, asked about registering a destroyed mortar, the specialist was uncertain about the specifics and was talking about a registered mortar, but when I told him I was asking about "rewatting" a mortar "drilled and barred", never registered, he said it can be done. A Form 1 is a one-time permit to make a DD.

When I asked him how would ATF know that a person was "rewatting" a destroyed mortar and not going through the paperwork to get registration of an illegal mortar, he was not sure, but he did say no photos were required. (photos of the hole in the base) The Form 1 may be like a "one-time Manufacturer's license," and as I understand it with a Manufacturer's license a new number has to be stamped on the remanufactured item, if this is the case it could be done on the back edge of the base plate after rewatting a destroyed mortar or...

Failed to ask him if any cost involved other than the final $200 when the project is completed. This is something to think about.
 

·
Kryptonite member
Joined
·
5,765 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Okiedokee, NO, they were at one time, but have been removed from the "no-no" list."
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
15,639 Posts
Ronin,
Thanks for the clarification. My response was based on reading your letter from the BATF, without prejudice. I just paraphrased what the letter says.

It is likely your name and address would be needed to be stamped on the reactivated weapon as the 'manufacturer', since it likely already has a number you could use the original number. I doubt stamping the base plate would suffice, as it is not an essential part of the weapon; you would have to ask BATF to be sure what marking and where would be required.

Only cost would be the $200 tax.

I have seen 'home made' mgs stamped this way on the receiver, of course these were done years ago when an individual could still mfg. a mg.

PaulS,
A registered dewat KM may have been 'dewatted' by a method other than the approved 'deactivation' specifications. Like welding the firing pin or some such. There would not appear to be any reason it could not be reactivated by filing a form 1, etc.

A properly deactivated knee mortar is the same as destroyed.
To again paraphrase the BATF letter, 'the deactivation by drilling and barring the tube, removes the weapon from the NFA regulation'.

Like you said, a properly demilled, i.e. destroyed KM, is a paperweight.


Edokko,
Rifle launchers are not subject to any regulation, neither is firing of rifle grenades. Only the grenades themselves must be deactivated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,284 Posts
I TOLD YOU GUYS THIS ABOUT 6 MONTHS AGO ABOUT REGISTERING KNEE MORTARS...NO DE-ACTIVATION IS NEEDED....ONLY FORM 1, 200.00... NAME AND ADDRESS...I WAS TELLING YOU GUYS TO STOP CUTTING HOLES IN THEM SO YOU WOULD NOT RUIN THE HISTORICAL SIGNIFIGENCE OF THE WEAPON AND KEEPING IT AS CLOSE TO ORIGINAL AS POSSIBLE...AND THE RESPONCES I RECEIVED WAS
"TALKIKG ABOUT RIUNING HISTORICAL SIGNIFIGENCE BY PLACING YOUR NAME ON THE MORTAR...I WOULD RATHER DRILL THE HOLE, NOT HAVE THE ATF HEADACHES SO EVERYBODY COULD ENJOY IT"
INDIVIDUALS...LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN INDIVIDUALS CAN, PROVIDING THEIR STATE ALLOWS IT, MAKE DD's, SUPPPRESSOR, SHORT BARRELS FIREARMS THEMSELVES...I AM A CLASS II/SOT AND MY ATF INSPECTOR TOLD ME THIS IN PERSON...

NOW STOP DRILLING KNEE MORTARS AND GET YOUR ADVISE FROM PEOPLE WHO KNOW...NOT GUESS MEN !!! ONE MORE THING....THE ATF DOESN'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO INTERPRET THEIR OWN LAWS...I CAN GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE OF THAT LATER IN A SEPERATE THREAD IF YOU LIKE?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,284 Posts
Here Is One More Thing....a Dd Is Any Firearm With A Rifled Barrel Over 50cal...then Why Is A Type 10 A Dd? It Has A Smooth Bore...exempt? No...the Exception...it Is A Dd...how About Your 12 Gauge Rifled Deer Shotgun.. Over 50cal? Yes.. 3/4 Bore...registerd Dd? No...sporting Firearm...but Usas12 & Street Sweepers Are 12 Guage Smooth Bore Shotguns... So They Are Sporting Firearms , Yes? No...dd Due To Their High Cap Mags Thanks To Clinton..it Will Get Worse When You Guys Vote For The Ole' Bag Or The Muslim Barack...his Old Man Was A Muslim Extremist Terrorist And Educated His Son, Obama In Jarkata... A Terrorist Training Camp...food For Thought...have A Nice Day...this Is A Great Board !!!! I Love It !!!!
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
15,639 Posts
Gunheep,
Thanks for reposting your message.

How do you square the illegal status of the KM while waiting for the approved Form 1?

All,
One other hoop to jump through on registration, the Chief Law enforcement officer (CLEO)of your juristdiction of residence has to sign off on the form 1. Better to check with them, in addition to checking state law.
 

·
Gold Bullet Member
Joined
·
3,425 Posts
Hello Edokks :
CW is right, Kalifornia interprets that any device that can launch a destructive device is a prohibited substance for you to display - use - own .
I took the barrel off my T-2 launcher and installed a solid dummy barrel and had it on my display case in the mid ' 90s at Pomona, a local Judge gave us so much lip that we had to put it under the table. You see the laws are so loose and ambiguous regarding destructive devices that it allows law enforcement to use it if they have something against you or if a neighbor complains about dangerous weapons.
Not only must you have a license to own d/ds, but each device must be registered, so for example possesing 1 explosive 7.7 SR cartridge in your collection maybe overlooked in one instance, same for one tracer, but a clip - box - belt of HE / TI / AP
takes you into a different classification and you better have licenses for those devices.
Now say they are looking for illegal weapons and they have a judge's signature to look for in your property, they do not find anything other than 1 HE round without a d/d license then that becomes the charge by which they can bust you and confiscate.
You maybe able to prove later on that the one round was part of your cartridge collection and that you didn't think you had to have a permit. At that point you have been hasseled, arrested, confiscated, paid a lawyer bookoo bucks to get you out court costs to prove your innocence and you will be lucky if you get your property back.
That is the form of harrazment that CA can do to you when they want your butt, it is all nice and legal. It is called selective use of ambiguous laws and politicians are famous for writting that so they can stack the deck against you the law abiding citizen.
Vicasoto
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top