Gunboards Forums banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Gold Bullet member
Joined
·
4,322 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Need Information on the Type 89 Knee Mortar.
Some time ago Doss asked for certain information on them and how we need to update that information.
We believe that there are 3 Variations of the Type 89,

1.Thin Red Line with “Leveling Device”
2.Thin White Line
3.Wide White Line.

This information will help us determine when each one was produced.
Below is a list of what we would like to get.

No names are needed or will be added to this information.
This information will also be put in Banazi.
Thank You for your help.

KNEE MORTAR DATA

1. Serial number on receiver and tube.

2. Showa or date on receiver.

3. Which Arsenal made it?

4.Sight line on barrel,
a.Thin Red line
b.Thin White line
c. Wide White line

5.Does it have the leveling device on barrel, just above the receiver.

6.Are serial numbers on barrel and receiver under one another, or is the serial number to the left on the receiver.

7.Is barrel locking latch on left side of trigger, or above it.

8.Please draw the "unknown" mark, which is next to the Arsenal Mark and the Inspection stamp.

Please send to:

Mark Strange
100 Fawn Ct
Hendersonville, TN
37075-9766 [email protected] or Doss White at Banazi
Mark Strange, strangms
xx

strangms
Gunboards Premium Member
247 Posts
Posted - 11/29/2004 : 6:40:47 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many collectors may have sent some of this information to Doss before, But we have added more questions to the sheet. We do not need your name, we are collecting Data, not names.
If you would like you can sent it in the mail address to me with my name and address as the return address also.
Thanks

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stupid question here, but are these things still considered NFA destructive devices. If they are still under the NFA, then why is this since there is no way to make explosive shells work in them. How can we lobby the BATF to see the sanity of removing them from the NFA list. I have a "friend" that has one that hasn't been demilled and I will get the information off of it for you. I know it is a really early one, serial numbered 2716.


rambob
Gunboards Member
USA
59 Posts
Posted - 01/07/2005 : 10:09:50 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) A picture is worth a thousand words. See image below for all tube markings.

Download Attachment:
12.24 KB

2) Thin red line and leveling device on tube

3) Serial on tube and receiver are under one another.

4) Locking lug to left of trigger.

A little bonus of the spare parts kit that came with this item, along with the proofed take down tool. This kit was tucked into a small canvas pocket inside the all leather carry case for the Type 89. The pocket had cloth tapes that were tied together to keep the kit from falling out of the pocket.

Download Attachment:
73.86 KB


Rambob,
Thank You very much for the data, every bit of information that we can get will help.
Here is a picture of one of mine that has the same "unknown" stamp as yours. It also has the Leveling device, and then red line.
Mine is dated 1936 and yours is 1934.

Download Attachment:
18.42 KB

It would be nice if they would take them off the list, I mean, it's been a long time since there was a hold up with one........

Thanks again for your information.

strangms

SDakota
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
123 Posts
Posted - 03/24/2005 : 12:39:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please excuse my "ignorance" but what is a "Knee Mortar?" I keep seeing referance to this subject and just can't resist asking any longer! Someone "pleasssse" educate me! Thanks, SDakota


niplover
Gunboards Premium Member
125 Posts
Posted - 04/08/2005 : 9:43:29 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello, do you need info on type 10 knee mortars,I also have a neet skeletal style carrying strap that has an arsenal marking. if you do let me know. John

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

niplover, Yes I would also like information on the type 10,

E-mail me at [email protected]

Thanks

strangms


niplover
Gunboards Premium Member
125 Posts
Posted - 04/14/2005 : 10:19:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


niplover,
Thanks for the pictures, The first one is from Nagoya with Kobe Seiko is the sub-contractor.
The date looks to be 10, 4 which would be 1939. Can you tell me does it have a thin white, red sight line? Is the barrel latch on the side or in front, just under the trigger?

On the other Type 89, is the marks also the same as the first one? Nagoya-Kobe Seiko?
Also is the 10 the only symbol for the date?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Please excuse my "ignorance" but what is a "Knee Mortar?" I keep seeing referance to this subject and just can't resist asking any longer! Someone "pleasssse" educate me! Thanks, SDakota"

Ignorance consists of NOT asking questions.

The "knee mortar" was (according to the reprint of the 1945 US Army handbook on Japanese armed forces) a light infantry support weapon, commonly issued (IIRC) one per squad or a few per platoon. It fired a 50mm high explosive or smoke rounds. It could also fire (again IIRC) hand or rifle grenades with a special adapter.

It became known as the "leg" or "knee" mortar in the US Army after an early captured Japanese document was mistranslated. This was sent to US units and led to a number of unfortunate accidents. The curved baseplate APPEARED to be designed for firing from a bent and braced thigh. In actuality the recoil was sufficient to break a femur if fired from that position.

Basically, it was supposed to more or less fill the same role as the later US M79 grenade launcher -- to allow the infantry unit to fire small charges of HE into the range gap between the distance you could throw a hand grenade and the minimum distance that could be covered by the unit's mortars. IIRC the "knee mortar" range was between c. 30 to 400 meters.

fred the obvious pseudony
Starting Member
3 Posts
Posted - 05/13/2005 : 2:42:05 PM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Snagged one yesterday, its getting cut today, heres the photo of markings wide white line, serial number on left side,

Download Attachment:
164.36 KB


Crash
Gunboards Super Premium Member
USA
282 Posts
Posted - 02/22/2007 : 10:00:28 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here it is cleaned up, better photo

Download Attachment:
163.88 KB

rblue
Gunboards Super Premium Member
USA
401 Posts
Posted - 04/29/2007 : 7:01:03 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Strangms,
Today was a nice day for shooting some photos outside.
Here are a couple of shots of my trainer mortar. I can't remember if you or Takehito transalted the kanji but I've got written down on my sheet the translation as: "Type Izawa Mortar Trainer".

Here also are the two wooden training rounds. I've added a regular round in one shot for a comparison.

This mortar is deactivated but I wonder if it was ever a live mortar at all, not unlike the Japanese training rifles?
R.Blue


Download Attachment:
58.3 KB

Download Attachment:
55.74 KB

Download Attachment:
68.69 KB

Download Attachment:
71.63 KB

Download Attachment:
60.44 KB

Download Attachment:
62.29 KB

Download Attachment:
66.48 KB

Download Attachment:
66.48 KB

Download Attachment:
71.77 KB

Download Attachment:
61.46 KB

rblue
Gunboards Super Premium Member
USA
401 Posts
Posted - 05/19/2007 : 1:59:48 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are photos of my other trainer. "Koiwa Seinen Gakto" translates Koiwa Youth School.
Thanks Takehito, for the translation.
R.Blue


Download Attachment:
59.33 KB
arisakadogs
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
5214 Posts
Posted - 05/20/2007 : 11:17:02 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by niplover

Hello, do you need info on type 10 knee mortars,I also have a neet skeletal style carrying strap that has an arsenal marking. if you do let me know. John

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you show the marking on the carrier? Thanks!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tadami Noi and "Army Dog" Igua Feb. 11th 1940
 

·
Gold Bullet member
Joined
·
845 Posts
The "knee mortar" was (according to the reprint of the 1945 US Army handbook on Japanese armed forces) a light infantry support weapon, commonly issued (IIRC) one per squad or a few per platoon. It fired a 50mm high explosive or smoke rounds. It could also fire (again IIRC) hand or rifle grenades with a special adapter.

It became known as the "leg" or "knee" mortar in the US Army after an early captured Japanese document was mistranslated. This was sent to US units and led to a number of unfortunate accidents. The curved baseplate APPEARED to be designed for firing from a bent and braced thigh. In actuality the recoil was sufficient to break a femur if fired from that position.
Yikes!

View attachment 414412
 

·
Platinum Bullet member
Joined
·
19,026 Posts
There's no thin white line on any of these that I know of. The first two variations both have thin red lines.
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
15,587 Posts
There's no thin white line on any of these that I know of. The first two variations both have thin red lines.
Evidently when Ronin was researching the sight lines, some thin white lines were reported. These may have been re-painted from original thin red lines; either to replace worn lines or for better visibility.

I have seen at least one, I think Ronin had/has it, the line is partially worn off, but definitely white. Who/when did it is another question.
 

·
Silver Bullet Member
Joined
·
148 Posts
mark I sent you p;ic of the 2 morars that i have about a year a go do you need them again- one with thin white ine and one with wide white line-john -dakjack
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
15,587 Posts
mark I sent you p;ic of the 2 morars that i have about a year a go do you need them again- one with thin white ine and one with wide white line-john -dakjack
John,
why not just post them here?
 

·
Platinum Bullet member
Joined
·
19,026 Posts
Well shut my mouth :sorry:
Will be in the new book I hope
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
15,587 Posts
Well shut my mouth :sorry:
Will be in the new book I hope
No picture, I figured folks could "imagine" what a thin while line looked like.

Checking the tables, three T 89s are reported with thin white aiming lines; so they are not common, maybe even scarce.
 

·
Platinum Bullet member
Joined
·
19,026 Posts
No picture, I figured folks could "imagine" what a thin while line looked like.

Checking the tables, three T 89s are reported with thin white aiming lines; so they are not common, maybe even scarce.
Just looked at the tables in the book. All three are 15 dates. I'm suspicious of those three in the middle of all the thin red lines.
 

·
Silver Bullet member
Joined
·
15,587 Posts
Just looked at the tables in the book. All three are 15 dates. I'm suspicious of those three in the middle of all the thin red lines.
Skepticism is healthy; as previously stated, the red lines may have been "replaced" with white, either at repair or "in the field" for better visibility, or just expedient use of white paint instead of red by Okuma and Shimazu due to a shortage in 1940. Or most anything else one can conjure up!

It is clear that later they went to white for the wide lines; so "trial" thin white lines would be similar to the transition changes in the T 99s.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
891 Posts
Mark,
I sent you 3 emails of my NON-DEMILITARIZED Grenade Discharge with images. Some questions. Hope you reply to my email.
Kaydee
Dwight Brown
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top