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I'm considering trying out real black powder at some point in the near future. What is the general impression of KIK as compared to GOEX? I'd probably be using mosly FFG, maybe some FFFG. I may order a can or two of 4F, as well, in anticipation of getting a flintlock someday.

I've read KIK has a bit more recoil and muzzle velocity than GOEX. It seems to be a bit less pricey than GOEX, so if there's no substantial difference, I'd rather spend less.

I appreciate any insight you esteemed members might offer.
 

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I suggest another alternative - Olde Enynesford (think that is the spelling), slightly more expensive than GOEX, less than Swiss or Schuetzen, but it burns so much cleaner than GOEX in the two rifles I have been trying it in. I did not have much luck with KIK, it seemed very dity and inconsistent to me, but other like it. I think I paid $16 a can for GOEX last year, and $18.50 for OE.

One can of 4F will last you awhile, and you might consider Swiss (Null B) rather than GOEX - the extra cost is worth it to me for priming, you use very little and a pound will prime a lot of pans.
 

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Bones, don't bother with the 4f, 3f and even 2f both do fine as priming in a flintlock. Why spend that much on a couple of cans that you will never be able to use even if you do a LOT of flintlock shooting? If you do want to try using the 4f for priming a flintlock only, you can certainly buy one can, but your money is better spent on what you will need.
 

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will5a1, I'll keep an eye out, thanks.

TP, that's interesting to know. I recall hearing 3F can be a good primer for flintlocks, but never having actually fired any flintlock, I can rely on research and the experience of others.

I will probably get a can or two of 4F. I'm currently looking for others in central NC who would like to join me on a group purchase.
 

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Military flintlocks were primed from the cartridge... the grain sizes were not exactly like the modern ones but CW "musket powder" was approximately 1-1/2F... the whole 4F thing is mostly the invention of modern shooters and writers. Although it did exist in period, there is little evidence it was widely used and certainly not thought of as a requirement. The "priming horns" commonly seen were, often as not, just small powder horns. Remember, in the early 19th century powder was proportionately much more expensive than it is today and was commonly sold in 1/4 and 1/2 pound increments. I once compared the price of gunpowder mentioned in the Welcome Mathewson daybook to the price of one of his "best finished rifles" (the rifle in question still exists and has been identified by the initials on the escutcheon) ... they are magnificent rifles and the price came out to roughly the same as 50 lbs of powder... or maybe 25 (I did this a long time ago). But think, using the maximum number and exaggerating the price of the powder, 50 x $20 is $1000. Try buying a custom made, full blown flint rifle for $1000 today.
 

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Military flintlocks were primed from the cartridge... [...]
That is true, but it was done so out of drill necessity, firing speed, ease of use and keeping procedures and supply chain as simple and foolproof as possible. However, if it comes to target practice and the whole tradition of Schützen, you will find a lot of deviation from the military "purity" to the extend that traditional Schützen rifles were hardly unusable for anything else but target shooting. I would argue, the issue of finer grained priming powder is a matter of the context in which it was used or not used. If a lock yields a faster and more reliable ignition with fine grained powder (and since 4F powder is widely available these days) why not use it. If match regulations leave the freedom of choice, you go with what works best with your rifle. If, on the other hand, historical accuracy is required you will have to use what is in your cartridge.
 

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Dear bones92

If you live in North Carolina, you should consider joining one of the fine N-SSA team in the state. Teams in the Carolina Region of the N-SSA hold a lot of live fire shoots up near Statesville, N.C. [For more info about the N-SSA go to: www.n-ssa.org]

Below is a link to the Carolina Region webpage where you will find a listing of the shoots being held this year in the North Carolina. Also, if you go to the "Regional Officers" page you can get the address of the Deputy Commander of the Carolina Region, Jim Rogers. He is a mighty fine man and I understand that his team is always "looking for a few good Skirmishers." I suggest you contact him for all the particulars.

http://n-ssa.org./CAROLINA/carolina.html
 

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Good advice, the N-SSA is a fine organization and many of the top shooters in the world participate in their matches. For those interested in participating in competitive military percussion rifle, rifle musket, rifled musket and smoothbore musket shooting as well as percussion pistol and revolver as well as cannon shooting, joining is highly recommended. However, unless things have changed considerably, there is not a lot of flintlock shooting done in their matches and that is what Bones is asking about.
 

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I'm considering trying out real black powder at some point in the near future. What is the general impression of KIK as compared to GOEX? I'd probably be using mosly FFG, maybe some FFFG. I may order a can or two of 4F, as well, in anticipation of getting a flintlock someday.

I've read KIK has a bit more recoil and muzzle velocity than GOEX. It seems to be a bit less pricey than GOEX, so if there's no substantial difference, I'd rather spend less.

I appreciate any insight you esteemed members might offer.
I shoot both Goex and Kik. I notice no difference. I use 3f under the ball and in the pan in my .45 custom flinter. .02
 

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I have a can of 4F that will likely last me the rest of my life. I use it simply because I have an Ampco pan primer that won't dispense 3F. Otherwise, when I only have one powder horn and minimal gear with me, 3F ignition is indistinguishable from 4F.
 

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One thing to consider is the caliber of firearm. Yes 3f can be used to prime a flintlock, but if the rifle is of a larger caliber (say above .54) then its ill advised to recommend 3f powder, as that granulation is better suited to rifles of .50 and below. Use of the finer granulations for the main powder charge in large bore rifles can be dangerous if not understood. If the shooter is not familiar with the fact that reduced volumetric amounts of powder is required when speaking 3fg loads vs 2fg loads meant to propel a large ball, this could lead to trouble. The added advantage of using one granulation of powder in order to save money, might wind up costing someone some pain as the result of an over pressure situation and or accident. The small cost of buying that can of 4fg and then using 2fg in a large bore gun is cheap insurance IMO. Plus that one can of 4fg if properly stored will last years. I have had the same can of 4fg for probably 12 years and I still have about 2/3'd s of a can left.
 
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