Gunboards Forums banner

1 - 2 of 2 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,734 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
John Wall
Posted - 11/18/2005 : 11:25:37 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For several years now, I have been thinking about doing a Mannlicher military rifle exhibit, and the time has finally arrived. So I have temporarily put away my Mausers, and picked 20 Mannlichers from my collection including an M.91 prize rifle and an HK-converted cavalry carbine. The Connecticut Gun Guild show show is this Saturday and Sunday, November 19 and 20 in Windsor CT, just north of Hartford.

If you are interested in coming to the show, you can find directions at: http://ycgg.org/gunshow.html

I'll take pictures and post them here next week. I am going to show Mannlichers (originals and conversions) from Italy, the Netherlands, Portugal, Romania, Indonesia, Greece, Hungary, Austro-Hungary, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Germany (HK Volksturm Carcano, Dutch M.95, Gew. 98/40), and Canada/USA (the Ross knock off of Mannlicher's patents used by the US Army for drill purposes).

Please join me if you can and help me deflect ridicule and abuse for being the first guy in New England to publicly show his Carcanos.
Best Regards,
John



John Wall
Posted - 11/24/2005 : 9:30:55 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It went very well. Of the 20 rifles I exhibited, two were Italian Carcanos, and two were "AOI" Italian M1895 Mannlichers (listed below) and both drew a lot of comment. I also learned that two fellow club members are closet Carcano collectors, with large personal collections. I think both were surprised to see my rifles. I am trying to convince them to show their collections (which include a wide range of Italian firearms and militaria) at our next show in the spring of 2006.

Here are the pictures from my Mannlicher rifle exhibit at the Connecticut Gun Guild Show held last weekend (November 19-20) in Windsor CT. The title of the exhibit was:

Mannlicher Military Rifles
in
Europe, Africa, Asia and
North America
1886-1945
Originals, Conversions and Hybrids


The exhibit takes up two tightly filled 8 foot tables for a total of 16 linear feet of table top space. At the back of each table, I have attached a four-rifle upright rack, giving me room to display 8 rifles vertically. This means that I have to show only twelve rifles on the table tops, which even then is crowded when you have to find display space for placards containing the historical text information. Last weekend's exhibit consisted of 20 Mannlicher rifles and carbines, 10 straight pull on the left hand table, and 10 turnbolt on the right. First, a picture of the whole display taken from the left:

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/John Wall/2005112384119_DSCN8327a.JPG
Download Attachment:
116.14 KB
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/John Wall/2005112385440_DSCN8328a.JPG
Download Attachment:
118.51 KB

Here are similar views but from the right:

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/John Wall/2005112384850_DSCN8265a.JPG
Download Attachment:
102.21 KB
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/John Wall/2005112385058_DSCN8286a.JPG
Download Attachment:
129.22 KB

Here is a listing of the displayed rifles with their descriptions:

Mannlicher Straight Pull Rifles, 1886-1945

1. Austro-Hungarian Empire, M.1886 Infantry Service rifle,
Caliber 11 mm black powder, the world’s first straight pull repeating infantry rifles, made for export sale at Steyr in 1891.

2. Bulgaria (ex-Austro-Hungarian Empire) M.1886/90 service rifle
Caliber 8x50mmR Austrian, this rifle has a Bulgarian lion property mark on its receiver. An unknown mark, apparently a letter "H" also appears with the lion stamp. This rifle was originally one of the approximately one million Repetiergewehr M.1886's made. After 1890, it was converted from 11 mm to 8X50.

3. Italy -Italian East Africa (ex-Austro-Hungarian) M.1888/90 Service Rifle.
Caliber 8x50mmR Austrian, a post WW I reparations rifle, rebuilt for use in Italian colonies in the 1930’s, marked “AOI” on its buttstock, for: “Africana Orientale Italiana”, the colony consisting of present day Ethiopia, Somalia, and Eritrea. Captured by the British in 1941, sent to India where it was stamped with the Kirkalee Arsenal’s broad arrow and “KA” mark. Used by East African native troops who comprised various garrison companies in British-occupied Somalia and Ethiopia, and is unit marked accordingly.

4. Austro-Hungarian Empire, M.1890 Carbine for the Gendarmerie and Navy.
Caliber 8x50mm R Austrian. This model, with its bayonet lug, was intended for use by military police and the Royal and Imperial Austro-Hungarian Navy. This carbine was manufactured and accepted at Vienna in 1893. Its butt trap, lack of a handguard and its round cocking piece are unique design features distinguishing the M.1890 from other Mannlicher carbines. So successful was this carbine that its action was used as the basis for the Model 1895 rifle when it was decided to replace the weaker wedge-locked M1888/90 long rifle. The patented M1890 breech mechanism a few years later miraculously appeared on rifles produced in Hartford, Connecticut and Quebec, Canada bearing the new name, "Ross Rifle Company". See Rifle # 8 below.

5. Austro-Hungarian Empire, M.1895 Long Rifle
Caliber 8x50mm R Austrian. Captured by the US Army’s 29th Infantry Division (National Guard) from the Austro-Hungarian Army’s 1st Infantry Division in France during Meuse-Argonne Offensive, August 1918. Restored in 2005. Brass plaque on buttstock reads: “Sgt. O. B. Hall, Co. A, 104th Supply Train, France July 15th, 1918. Rifle found near Verdun, Oct. 8, 1918. On trip to Brabant, Left France for U.S.A.”. The 104th Supply Train was a motorized logistics and supply unit attached to the 29th ID throughout WW I.

6. Italy- Italian East Africa (ex- Austro-Hungarian) M1895 Carbine
Caliber 8x50mm R Austrian, Buttstock branded with the letters “AOI” for “Africana Orientale Italiana”, the Italian colony comprising Italian Somali-land, Ethiopia and Eritrea. Its beech stock is new and has been numbered in the Italian manner, with the suffix letter stamped over the serial number (Austro-Hungarian stocks have the letter suffix next to the serial number.)

7. Hungary, 31M Mannlicher Carbine
Caliber 8x50mm R Austrian. This is the post WW I service rifle adopted by Hungary in 1931 to use the new 8x56R service cartridge. Rebuilt by Hungary in the 1930’s and converted to 8x56R, as indicated by the large “H” on the barrel swell.

8. Canada.U.S.A., M.1905 Canadian Mannlicher, a.k.a the Ross Model 1905
Caliber .303 British. Originally patented in Canada in 1894, the Ross was an early patent knock-off of action develop by Ferdinand von Mannlicher for the Austro-Hungarian Model 1890 carbine. (See Rifle # 4 above.) The “invention” of the Scotsman Sir Charles Ross, this devolutionary design was adopted by thge Militia and Ministry of Defence in Canada in 1904. In addition to its Mannlicher type action, the 1905 Ross also incorporated a regressive design for its five-round staggered box magazine, which, instead of using charger or packet clips and rimless cartridges, required manual “dump loading” of loose, rimmed cartridges. The rifle is stamped "U.S." behind the trigger guard where is is also serial numbered. ON the eright side of teh buttstock, it is marked "469" over "1910" and "II*"

9. Yugoslavia, M.1895M Short Rifle
Converted to 7.9x57 mm Mauser. An M.1895 Mannlicher straight pull rifle obtained as war reparations from Austria-Hungary, and rebuilt by the Yakov Poshinger Arms and Ammunition Factory (FOMU) of Uzice, Yugoslavia, between 1933 and 1939. Issued to rear echelon, support troops, and border guards. The Inspection and acceptance marks are from the Yugoslav Military Technical Institute at Kragujevac Armory in Serbia.

10. Greece, the M.1888/24 Hybrid Short Rifle
Caliber 7.9x57 mm Mauser, converted for clients and reasons unknown in Belgium in the 1930's. This rifle uses a short 23 inch barrel and early French pattern rear sights. These rifles were acquired by the British in 1940 and sent to Greece. They were then captured by the Wehrmacht, and sent to North Africa where this rifle was used by Italian or Afrika Korps forces and later captured by US Forces in 1942/43. (See description of these captured M.1888/24’s in “Ordnance Went Up Front” by Roy Dunlap.) These rifles qualify as a Mauser-Mannlicher hybrids because during their conversion in Belgium, the M1888 receiver was cut to accept the 5-round Mauser charger clip, and the open Mannlicher magazine was covered with a new plate. Although regarded by most as unsafe conversions, all rifles of this type have past nitro proof tesing at the Liege (Belgium) Proof House.


Mannlicher Turn Bolt Rifles 1891 to 1944

1. Italy: M.1891 Mannlicher Carcano Infantry Long Rifle
The example is a standard infantry rifle, made before WW I, which was found to be especially accurate when test fired. It was therefore “accuracy marked” with a small crossed rifles and bullseye” stamp. It was later selected as a prize rifle for the winner of one of the many annual national shooting competitions, and so marked on its inlaid brass plaque. The rifle was made at Terni Armory in 1910, stocked in 1912, awarded in 1914

2. Germany (ex-Italian) M.1891/38 Mannlicher Carcano Cavalry Carbine,
Converted by Heinrich Krieghoff from 6.5 mm Italian to 7.92x57 mm German for use by the German Volksturm in 1945. The carbine bears two sets of serial numbers, original Italian and the newer German, and has been proofed according to German standards and so marked. The origin of the sling is uncertain. The red varnish finish is original. The weapon has not been converted to charger loading. Instead, this carbine was intended to use a special Carcano packet clip made to hold five 7.92x57mm rounds. There is a German firing proof eagle on the receiver and a small German WaA on stock near the toe.

3. Portugal (ex-Romanian) M. 1893 Cavalry Carbine
Formerly 6.5x54mmR Romanian, now converted to single shot and .22 caliber long rifle for use as a training rifle. This carbine was one of several thousand, which together with the Model 1896 short rifle ith a 24 inch barrel, were purchased from Steyr in 1896-97.

4. Poland (ex-French) M1890/1907/15 Mannlicher Berthier made at Chatellerault, France
Caliber 8mm. A post WW I Polish service rifle, refurbished, rebarreled and hopelessly mismatched at a Polish armory, and marked with the “Z” in a triangle mark. The letter “Z” indicates that the rifle worked on in a “zbrovnia” or satellite armory belonging to one of the major Polish armories such as Radom or Warsawa. Over 34,000 Mannlicher Berthier rifles and varbines were sold by Poland to Nationalist forces in Spain during the Spanish Civil War. The remaining Nationalist arms were later sold by Franco to Interarms who imported them to the USA in ther 1959-1963 time frame. This in fact may be a "Spanish Nationalist, ex-Polish, ex-French" rifle.

5. Germany, (ex-Netherlands), M.1895 Long Rifle
Caliber 6.5x53.5mmR. This rifle was captured in Holland in 1940 and was refurbished by the Germans. The bolt was blued, the stock was renumbered in the German fashion (horizontally on the lower edge of the stock); and the stock had been perforated to accept the side mounted German Kar98k sling.

6. Netherlands, M.1895 Royal Dutch East Indies Army (KNIL) Cavalry Carbine
Caliber 6.5x53.5mmR. This cavalry carbine shows little sign of being issued. One of only 10,000 made, for use in present day Indonesia. Made at Hembrug Armory in the Netherlands in 1918.

7. Greece (?) M.1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer Long Rifle
Caliber 6.5x54R Romanian. A commercially-produced Model 1903 rifle made at Steyr in 1905. Rifles of this type were used in Greece and the Balkans long before the Greek Army adopted the Mannlicher Schoenauer and began taking deliveries in 1907. The bolt is a later Greek component and is not original to this rifle.

8. Indonesia, (ex-Netherlands) KNIL, M1895 Police Carbine
Converted from 6.5 Dutch to caliber .303 British on the 1950’s by the Government of Indonesia, who also added the muzzle break. Originally a Dutch East Indies police carbine, this example was manufactured at embrug in the Netherlands in 1918. It was converted to .303 in 1953 in former KNIL armories in Indonesia. Many types of muzzle breaks have been documented.

9. Hungary, Model 1935 (35M) Service Rifle
Caliber 8x56mmR. Made at FEG in Budapest, Hungary, 1935-1940, for the Hungarian Army, predecessor of the German Gew. 98/40 and the Hungarian 43M. Made and "Bp" acceptance-marked at Budapest in 1939.

10. Germany, Gewehr 98/40 Service Rifle
Caliber 7.9x57mm. Made for Wehrmacht troops from 1941 to 1944 at FEG in Budapest under the German “jhv” ordnance code. Of the many Mannlicher – Mauser hybrid rifles designed over the years, this is one of the best. It combines features of the Model 1898 Mauser and the Hungarian 35M service rifles: a rimless cartridge, Mauser’s five round staggered box magazine, charger clip loading, the Mannlicher M.1895 turn bolt action with its improved Schliegelmilch (Gew. 88) bolt, in addition to a Lee-Enfield-style two piece stock.

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/John Wall/2005112221828_DSCN8270a.JPG
Download Attachment:
117.04 KB

There is more on the Gunboards Steyr Mannlicher Forum at this URL:

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=134499

http://old.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=134499

Regards,
John

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - John Wall on 11/24/2005 9:41:32 PM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,734 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
More pics from the exhibit

John Wall
Posted - 11/23/2005 : 7:42:09 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here are a few more pictures of the exhibit:

First, an example of crass commercialism at Gun Shows. I even had Paul's book scented to smell like beef jerky, a crass commercial attempt at sublimal marketing to put buyers in a gun show-heaven frame of mind. From left to right the rifles are the Italian Mannlicher-Carcano M.1891 long rifle with prsentation plaque, made at Terni in 1910. Second, the ex-French Polish Mannlicher Berthier, then the Dutch M1895 mannlicher with German sling, and finally, the Model 1900 Mannlicher Schoenauer with rotary magazine, made at Steyr in 1905.

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/John Wall/20051123193923_DSCN8322-book-turn bolts.JPG
Download Attachment:
111.47 KB

Here is the crossed rifles accuracy stamp on an Italian M1891 presentation rifle made at Terni. MOre marks, including the plaque and stock cartouche are below as well.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/John Wall/20051123193943_DSCN8290a-Terni.JPG
Download Attachment:
83.28 KB
...
Download Attachment:
60.22 KB
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/John Wall/2005112423752_M91 Carcano stock cartouche - Mvc-078f.jpg
Download Attachment:
86.85 KB
...
Download Attachment:
52.64 KB
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/John Wall/20051123193957_DSCN8291a-Polish Z.JPG
Download Attachment:
89.52 KB
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/John Wall/20051123194010_DSCN8292-1905 MS.JPG
Download Attachment:
68.34 KB
...
Download Attachment:
51.87 KB
...
Download Attachment:
55.45 KB
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/John Wall/20051123194130_DSCN8288a-4 straight.JPG
Download Attachment:
101.92 KB

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - John Wall on 11/24/2005 02:38:32 AM
 
1 - 2 of 2 Posts
Top