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Jinsen Pole with Cherry Blossom Mark (pics)


Topic:



Topic author: gtbehary
Subject: Jinsen Pole with Cherry Blossom Mark (pics)
Posted on: 10/21/2005 3:38:51 PM
Message:
Here are the pictures of the Jinsen Pole Bayonet with the double marking. SN# 74258. Also a pic of a Variation N bayonet.

http://forums.gunboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9299&stc=1&d=1191717745
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http://forums.gunboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9300&stc=1&d=1191717745
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Replies:

Reply author: pacific-war44
Replied on: 10/22/2005 12:38:47 AM
Message:
In a poetic sense,the pole bayo kinda resembles a last ditch enlisted man's/civilian's wakizashi.Or a naginata possibly.With the wood scabbard(saya,heh) and not specifically intended for a lowly rifle attachment,it seems to be a neat confidince booster for the war weary with lofty aspirations of being a samurai.Or it's my drinking catching up with me,whichever comes first....Scott

Reply author: awp101
Replied on: 10/22/2005 02:22:16 AM
Message:
I'm curious...why's it called a pole bayonet? Is it the length or were they actually designed to be attached to a pole, like a pike or something?


Reply author: BradB
Replied on: 10/22/2005 06:20:46 AM
Message:
Designed to tie to a pole. No slot for bayonet lug, holes on both sides of crossguard. Actual records of attacks in late war with bayonets mounted as spears... no definitive proof if this type or regular. Made for last ditch use.


Reply author: Edokko
Replied on: 10/22/2005 08:21:01 AM
Message:
By July 1942, the IJA had issued manuals for bayonet combat that included attaching conventional T-30 bayonets to bamboo or wooden poles by non-rifle carrying soldiers. I'm sure that as war progressed even further, the army have oredered the arsenals to produce simplified bayonets that were meant just for this purpose, with some perhaps issued for civilians.


On the subject of bayonets, I found an interesting book in Japan that carries some period photos of weapons. Of the photos, the following is that of a Type 2 Paratrooper Rifle and an Experimental Type 2 Machine Pistol. Note the Paratrooper is pictured together with the normal T-30 bayonet, and the machine pistol is pictured with the short bayonet attached. Could be stronger evidence that the short bayonet was devised for the machine pistol but not the paratroop rifle, and was issued by or before the advent of the T-2 MP, probably originally designed alongwith the T-100 MP. As we know, there is a folding stock T-100 MP for paratroopers and we can assume that they would carry the short bayonets, but the paratrooper with T-2 rifles probably carried standard T-30 bayonets.

http://forums.gunboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9301&stc=1&d=1191717745
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Reply author: Jareth
Replied on: 10/22/2005 11:39:10 AM
Message:
I've always strongly felt that the type 100 SMG bayonet was designed specifically for a SMG & NOT the type 2 rifle. In all my period, original photos the army paratroopers have standard type 30 bayonets on their belts.


Reply author: arisakadogs
Replied on: 10/22/2005 1:23:28 PM
Message:
Interesting that it shows it with a 'hook guard' bayonet rather than the later straight type guard.


Reply author: rlabar
Replied on: 10/22/2005 10:38:41 PM
Message:
Hi George,
I just had to drop you a note, since you got my bayonet I was trying to get. I wanted to add my serial number to the record keepers 74521. I've had mine for over 10 years now, and have only seen 3 in 36 years of collecting. So congradulations, as I paid $500 for mine, and thought I got a deal. Is your arsenal mark normal? Mine is turned sideways, and I always thought it might have been a rejected bayonet, until things got bad enough that they reissued it like it is. Has anyone indentified the cherry blossom and star mark? I wanted to add I liked the bamboo scabbard on your JB-68, but is the metal tip missing? And one more thing, I read somewhere that they found something like 1500 bayonets straped to bamboo sticks on an island after it was taken, but it never said if they were the pole bayonets, or just regular bayonets.
Sincerely,
Raymond


Reply author: gtbehary
Replied on: 10/23/2005 10:03:18 AM
Message:
Hi Ray,
The Jinsen Arsenal mark is there, but very light. It is not centered on the blade but is offset as is the cherry blossom mark. The scabbard on the JB68 is really cool. Too bad it is in such poor shape.
I am in the process of replacing a nice bayonet collection, that I foolishly sold when I needed some extra cash. I am paying the price for that now.
There are just a few more that I want. I am not trying to get them all, but some of the different variations.
George


Reply author: ken_hable
Replied on: 10/24/2005 8:05:30 PM
Message:
This seems like a good time to jump in and ask if anyone knows why these are called "pole bayonets?" Back in the early 60's when I first learned of these weapons they were "short swords, that could also be attached to a pole." I often wondered why put wood grips on, if you're going to attach it to a pole? Why go to the trouble of making scabbards with provisions for a frog? Grips and scabbards just seem silly for a spear point. Just some thing I've thought about. Ken


Reply author: Jareth
Replied on: 10/24/2005 9:46:42 PM
Message:
Ken, I've always felt it was just logical to include frog so blade could be carried on belt irregardless of it's purpose. Kind of same thinking with grips as handle is more comfortible & better fit in the hand. These were probally multi use weapons. Still hoping to see an original photo of these bayonets attached to poles! The true "sword" bayonets don't have holes through cross guards & are not meant to fit on a rifle. I guess they're strictly meant as a short sword. You know all this already so pardon this rant.


Reply author: BradB
Replied on: 10/25/2005 05:52:57 AM
Message:
Hard to tuck inside a sock...



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