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Now that I have one, is there any documented Japanese use of the Type 45? I'm not real clear on Thailand's involvement, or lack there of, in WWII. I know they fgought the French in 1940/41. Guess I could have asked at Roy's.:p By the way Doss, I fixed the messed up rear sight, and safety.:thumbsup:
 

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Frank A. wrote a super booklet on the Siamese Mauser back in the 80s. I'm sure he'll pop in with a good answer. Perhaps Patrick H. will offer his thoughts as well.

C/
 

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I seriously doubt the Japanese used the Type 45 in combat as during WWII as they were 'sort of' Allied with the Japanese.
On December 8, 1941 Thailand was invaded by the Japanese ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_invasion_of_Thailand
After the invasion a Thai military alliance with Japan had been signed on 21 December 1941. Three Thai infantry and one cavalry division, spearheaded by armoured reconnaissance groups and supported by the air force, started their advance into Burma on 10 May, and engaged the retreating Chinese 93rd Division. Kengtung, the main objective, was captured on 27 May. Renewed offensives in June and November drove the Chinese back into Yunnan. The boundary between the Japanese and Thai operations was generally the Salween. However, that area south of the Shan States known as Karenni States, the homeland of the Karens, was specifically retained under Japanese control.
I did a whole artricle on the Thai involvement in WWII somewhere with some pictures .... will have to search for it
Patrick
 

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Thanks Patrick. Interesting stuff. As always, you are a walking reference library.
 

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What was the problem with the sight and safety? If I ever noted I've forgotten, but always a fun time to unload a piece of junk on a buddy. He-he-he as Okiedokee would say. Seriously, did not know anything was amiss, we can "reverse trade"?
 

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Nothing serious with the Type 45. Rear sight slide latch spring had collapsed. Replaced it. Also, the cocking piece was in crooked, and the safety wouldn't engage. (I should've checked that) All better now. I'm happy.:thumbsup:
 

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Here are some very rare pictures of The Royal Thai Army during WWII

They fought a war with the Vichy French in Indo-China from October 1940 to May 9, 1941. The Thai forces dominated the war on the ground and in the air, but suffered a crushing naval defeat at the battle of Koh Chang.
In early January 1941, the Royal Thai Army "Burapha' and "Isan" Armies launched their offensive on Laos and Cambodia, French resistance was instantaneous, but many units were simply swept along by the better-equipped Thai forces. The Thai's swiftly took Laos, but Cambodia proved a much harder nut to crack. At dawn on January 16, 1941 the French launched a large counterattack on the Thai-held villages of Yang Dang Khum and Phum Preav, initiating the fiercest battle of the war. Because of over-complicated orders and nonexistent intelligence, the French counterattacks were cut to pieces and fighting ended with a French withdrawal from the area. The Thai's were unable to pursue the retreating French, as their forward tanks were kept in check by the gunnery of French Foreign Legion artillerists.
The Japanese mediated the conflict, and a general armistice was arranged to go into effect at 1000 hours on January 28. On May 9 a peace treaty was signed in Tokyo with the French being coerced by the Japanese into relinquishing their hold on the disputed territories ... Laos and Cambodia.
The Royal Thai Army suffered a total of 54 men killed in action and 307 wounded, the Royal Thai Navy suffered a total of 41 killed, and 67 wounded ... at the Battle of Koh Chang, 36 men were killed, of whom 20 belonged to HTMS Thonburi, 14 to HTMS Songkhla, and 2 to HTMS Chonburi. The Royal Thai Air Force lost 13 men ... the Royal Thai Air Force claimed to have shot down five French aircraft and destroyed seventeen on the ground, for the loss of three of its own in the air and another five to ten destroyed in French air raids on Thai airfields. The number of Thai military personnel captured by the French amounted to just 2.
Japan invaded the country along its southern coastline and from Cambodia on December 8, 1941 and after initially resisting, the Thai Government allowed the Japanese to pass through the country in order to attack Burma and invade Malaya. Convinced by the Allied defeats of early 1942 that Japan was winning the war, the Thai's decide to form an actual military alliance with the Japanese.
As a reward, Japan allowed Thailand to invade and annex the Shan States in northern Burma, and to resume sovereignty over the sultanates of northern Malaya which had previously been lost in a treaty with Britain
The Royal Thai Army did fight alongside with the Japanese against the Chinese in the Northern part of the Shan States from 1942-1945. Three Thai infantry and one cavalry division, spearheaded by armoured reconnaissance groups and supported by the air force, started their advance into Burma on 10 May, and engaged the retreating Chinese 93rd Division. Kengtung, the main objective, was captured on 27 May. Renewed offensives in June and November drove the Chinese back into Yunnan. The Royal Thai Army fought very well in this campaign and was highly regarded by the Japanese Army.
Thailand did declare war against the United States and Great Britian but never fought them in ground battle. The Thai AF did shoot down quite a few B17's during raids on Bangkok and the Thai Navy sunk 2 US submarines during the course of the war.
As the war in Burma turned against the Japanese in late 1944 and 45 the Thai's formed a "Free Thai Army" to fight the Japanese and drive them from thier country.
When Japan surrendered in September of 1945 ... Thailand officially surrendered and in 1946 had to return both Laos and Cambodia back to the French which they had gained during the Franco-Thai War.

Royal Thai Army 4th Division Motorcycle Reconnaisance Squadron outside Ban Ongluek, May 10, 1942


Royal Thai Army 3rd Division marches into Kengtung, 1942


Royal Thai Army Type 95 Ha-Go on the advance in the Shan States, 1942


Royal Thai Army Infantrymen


Royal Thai Marines with Type 66's


Members of the 5ème Régiment Etranger d'Infanterie during the Franco-Thai War
They are carrying the Mousqueton d'Artillerie Modèle Modifié 1916
 

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RTAF Curtiss Model H-75N Hawk that was flown during the Franco-Thai War and against invading Japanese forces on December 8, 1941. When Thailand went to war against China in 1942 they changed the roundel of the aircraft to a red rectangular type roundel which had a 'running' white elephant inside to help stop confusion of the RTAF with the RAF even htough none was ever shot down due to this.



RTAF marking 1942-45
 

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It is at the Royal Thai Air Force Museum just 25 miles north of Downtown Bangkok at the Don Mueang Royal Thai Air Force Base. The museum is very close to Don Mueang International Airport.
Patrick
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for posting Patrick. It's amazing what one can learn, from the aquisition of a single piece of hardware. Another war, within the war. It would seem, that the use of Type 45s' by Japanese forces, is very likely, though maybe only in isolated instances.
 

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To echo what has been stated above, Japan did not use the Type 46 Siamese Mauser (NOT Type 45) during WWII. Even in Thailand the Type 46 had been assigned to reserve status by that time. It had been replaced by the Arisaka variant designated the Type 66 and chambered for the later Type 66 8mm cartridge (Type 66 - 8x52R). Many Type 46 rifles were re-chambered for this cartridge during early 1920s. The Siamese Mausers did remain in reserve status until the 1970s when they were sold on the international arms market. However, some stayed in the nation's weapons inventroy up until 2000, when 1700 or so were still listed.

As Seinen noted I published a small booklet on them many years ago. I hope to initiate that research project again to answer some of the unanswered questions that remainded from the original research. There is still some to learn, particularly about the carbines. If any of our readers has a Type 47 carbine that has not previously been reported please let me know.

Frank
 
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