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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Picked up a Danzig 1917 Gewehr 98 a couple weeks ago, that was converted to a K98k at some point, and converted to 7.62 Nato by the Israelis.

Is there any way of telling who or when the rifle was turned in to a K98? Did Israel use Gew98s, or were these converted before they got to Israel?

It has a ton of stamps and markings, including a Nazi era Waffenampt (WaA18) on the trigger, and another possible WaA63 on the sight slider. Can anyone help me identify some of the other markings?

(Click images for massive high res version)

Receiver ring:


S/N and side markings:


Right side of Receiver ring:


Bottom of receiver:


WaA on trigger:


Possible worn WaA on sight slider (no larger image):


Rear Sight spring:


Lower right side of action:


The Waffenampts could mean it was converted to a K98k by the Nazis, but those could also have been spare parts installed by the Israelis when it was rebarreled.

Some of the markings are obvious, like the imperial eagle and the Star of David, but can anyone help identify any of the other markings?

Thanks,
 

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Gew 98s found in Israeli Kar98k 7,62 set up.

Several routes have been followed by this sort of conversion:

1. G98 converted to G98M in the 30s, then cut down to Kar98k in Germany, then sold to Israel in the late 1940s, which then converted to 7,62 in the 1950s etc...Normal Route.

2. Gew98 from Turkish Army (WWI) acquired by Palestine Jewish settlers in 1920s-30s, then used and converted to Kar98k-7,62 with mixed parts (common in Israeli 7,62 conversions)...I have a Turk And Israeli Marked Gew98 Original condition make-up (Lange sights etc).

3. Kar98k assembled from many parts during 7,62 Conversion process...note varying WaA marks, and even an early 1930s "H" inspection mark on rear sight spring....some of the 7,62s are real mix-masters.

Mystery tour rifle.

Doc AV
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Gew 98s found in Israeli Kar98k 7,62 set up.

Several routes have been followed by this sort of conversion:

1. G98 converted to G98M in the 30s, then cut down to Kar98k in Germany, then sold to Israel in the late 1940s, which then converted to 7,62 in the 1950s etc...Normal Route.

2. Gew98 from Turkish Army (WWI) acquired by Palestine Jewish settlers in 1920s-30s, then used and converted to Kar98k-7,62 with mixed parts (common in Israeli 7,62 conversions)...I have a Turk And Israeli Marked Gew98 Original condition make-up (Lange sights etc).

3. Kar98k assembled from many parts during 7,62 Conversion process...note varying WaA marks, and even an early 1930s "H" inspection mark on rear sight spring....some of the 7,62s are real mix-masters.

Mystery tour rifle.

Doc AV
You think this rifle is option 3? I would think if it was "2" it would have a Turkish crescent, and if it was "1" it would have Weimar eagles and more Waffenampts.

Anyone recognize any of the other stamps?

Thanks
 

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Probably Option "3".

Gew98M don't necessarily have any Wiemar Eagles, only Imperial ones...and the "S42/G or "S42/K" on the rear sight parts, with "H" inspection mnarks on rear of sight bar and spring as well. ( Option "1")

The Ex Turkish Gew98s may or may not have a definite "Crescent Moon" mark on them...some are so small they are hardly visible and wear off (or are turned off for the "7,62" marking., as they were applied to the front end of the receiver ring...

regards,
Doc AV
 

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nice, Armscorp import?
This is mine--a collection of WWI and WW II markings, and a transition date.
this one got me over my "thing" about Spandau rifles..If the Israeli's didn't care, why should I? I now have several...
Lots of history here--not often seen any more, and certainly not for sale on a regular basis!
Cheapdad
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yes, is is an Armscorp import. The stock was filthy when I got it, but it cleaned up pretty well, with a couple coats of boiled linseed oil.

Not having any luck figuring out info on the markings.

Does anyone have a good reference for Gew98 stamps?

I did clean up the gunk on the side of the receiver lug and got a better photo:

(click to biggify)


Doc's comments on Turkey got me looking at the squiggly ones a little closer (like on the left of the above photo), comparing them to The Ottoman Turkish alphabet, as well as Arabic, Persian and Hebrew, and I didn't see anything that matched. A couple were vaguely similar, but I don't think any are Turkish.

It also doesn't have a date on the barrel that I can see, unless by some odd coincidence it was done in 7 of 62:



Anyone recognize "KS" looking stamp on the receiver ring:


I assume these are Imperial proof or acceptance stamps, is there any reference to what they mean?


Thanks for the help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Evidently the Israelis know how to rework a rifle.

Took it to the range today. I picked up a couple boxes of Federal/Lake City XM80C and tried it out, Only 50 yards to get the front sight in the right spot for the proper windage zero:



The flyer was called, dude next to me had a muzzle brake, and made me flinch right as it broke (Dammit).

Took one sighter shot to get the windage, then went 4 for 4 on the 400 yard steel.

Not much better than an old accurate rifle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The stock was filthy when I got it, so I cleaned it up and gave it a couple coats of BLO and a coat of "Gunny Paste", (equal parts beeswax/turpentine/BLO), to try and protect it. It also had a small split I had to repair, but otherwise didn't do anything to it.

I didn't do any safety checks, other than throwing my jacket across the action for the first shot and wearing safety glasses. I personally never bother with headspace checking, the head space would have to be ridiculously bad to cause damage greater than a case failure, and in the case of a Mauser 98, the gas handling is pretty good,
 

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The stock was filthy when I got it, so I cleaned it up and gave it a couple coats of BLO and a coat of "Gunny Paste", (equal parts beeswax/turpentine/BLO), to try and protect it. It also had a small split I had to repair, but otherwise didn't do anything to it.

I didn't do any safety checks, other than throwing my jacket across the action for the first shot and wearing safety glasses. I personally never bother with headspace checking, the head space would have to be ridiculously bad to cause damage greater than a case failure, and in the case of a Mauser 98, the gas handling is pretty good,
well stated! thank you.
I look forward to trying this beast out. I particularly like your "jacket technique"
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
well stated! thank you.
I look forward to trying this beast out. I particularly like your "jacket technique"
To be clear, I am not saying this is what you or anyone else should do, just what I did. It is a gamble, and it is theoretically possible to blow up the rifle. You need to decide the level of risk that you are willing to assume with your rifle and in extreme cases, yourself.

The jacket wouldn't do much, but hopefully contain any wood splinters or shrapnel if the action failed catastrophically. I also pulled the trigger with my left hand, with my face well away from the action, and inspected the spent case very carefully after firing for any signs of pressure, or anything unusual.

You can also do the old tire, tree and string trick, put the rifle in the tire, throw a ratchet strap around it to hold it in place, put a string around the trigger, hide behind the tree and touch one off.
 

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Ammusing to say the least, ya I understand the rules of engagement..

I have a few safety precautions in mind.

thanks for the heads up.

ill post back Monday when she is in hand.
 

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Very nice.Gew 98 Receiver IDF Mausers are one of the harder ones to find.CAI had some made from South American receivers and those are tough also.Finally 8mm IDF mausers are also very hard to find.Nice piece
 

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Does that trigger photo prove that serial number zero rifles were made?

Regards,
Bill
Makers mark for Madix Nähmaschinenrteilefabrik of Dresden part of the Sachsen Group of subcontractors supplying Gustloff. The e/18 is also correct for this piece. Could have been a 'spare'.
 
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