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OK i know this has been discussed numerious times but I can't seem to search any my questions. 1. Were all Enfields with the Ishy screw rerurbed in India? 2. Any other tell tale signs that point to a Indian refurb? 3. How much value does this "Ishy screw" take away from a otherwise very nice looking No. 4 LB? It has a matching receiver and bolt, no import marks and no Canadian furniture markings other than a small faint 3 or 4 digit number (about a 1/4" high) either painted or stenciled on the butt stock. If I can find a way to decrease the size of my image I'll post a pic. Thanks in advance.
 

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screw'd

OK i know this has been discussed numerious times but I can't seem to search any my questions. 1. Were all Enfields with the Ishy screw rerurbed in India? 2. Any other tell tale signs that point to a Indian refurb? 3. How much value does this "Ishy screw" take away from a otherwise very nice looking No. 4 LB? It has a matching receiver and bolt, no import marks and no Canadian furniture markings other than a small faint 3 or 4 digit number (about a 1/4" high) either painted or stenciled on the butt stock. If I can find a way to decrease the size of my image I'll post a pic. Thanks in advance.
Ishy screw = India service sometime from the 40's on.
Ishy screw does not mean refurb. If the rifle was refurbed, 90% of the time the rifle would have been scrubed ie: markings removed. Also rifles will bare FR or FTR markings.
A couple of years ago in the states. 2,000 No 1 MkIII came in. All were FTR'd in OZ in the 50's then sold to India. India screw'd them and then put them in stores. I bought 20 early Lithy's 14'15'16'....... Great rifles except for the ishy screw.

As to price. If the rifle is rare the screw does nothing. If just a everyday common rifle.. the screw brings the price down, about 10-20%.
To me the screw is just more history to the old girl.
ATB
 

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The so called ISHY screw may not be Indian.Could be aussie for grenade firing when EYs unavailable.
Do you have any documentation for that?
 

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OK so could someone tell me exactly what an ISHY screw is? Picture would be nice. Did an internet search, but was surprised to find that it didn't help to clarify exactly what it is.

Thanks!
Jason
 

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The "Ishy screw" is a simple slotted, flat head, steel, wood screw installed tranversely through the forend ahead of the triggerguard. Just a screw is all and it seems India screwed any rifle still in service whether it was needed or not.



This isn't the first time I've heard that Aussie screw/grenade story. I first heard it shortly after India surplused all those Lithgows they bought from Australia in the 50's.
 

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sorry about late reply. No documents only what range shooters my father and other ex service men told a pesty kid in late 50s to early 70s when i gave big bore.
 

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The "Ishy screws", or variations such as bolts, have not only also been fitted to British GF conversions, but also by many gunsmiths to sold-out-of-service No1-actioned rifles being prepared as target rifles. As an example, Crocker of Perth routinely fitted a bolt with flush-finished nuts to SMLEs going through their shop. With No4 rifles, however, the practice is very much rarer - none of the big names such as AJP or Fultons used this type of modification. A No4 with a woodscrew has almost certainly been "Ishy'd".
 

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Good to know. I was curious, because I've seen a few British GF rifles with a bolt, but never have seen one with a screw, other than the Ishys.
 

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Hello every one,

Joined today and have been going through old posts and came across this.The Indian state police force's still use 303 Lee Enfields made by RFI with a sprinkling of British manufactured ones amongst them.Through the years I have fired and handled a large number of these rifles.I have never seen a rifle in service with the security forces,either made by RFI or a foreign maker, with this sort of a wood screw.Had it been the practise at RFI to put this sort of screw through the stock,it would have been there in the rifles made by them.RFI did ,at one time,put a brass pin through the stock at around the place where the screw is.The later rifles had a metal band riveted to the fore-end where it meets the butt socket, to prevent the wood from splitting.Infact RFI still makes a version of the Enfield No1 Mark 3 in 8x50R Austrian Mannlicher sold as .315 sporting rifle.
 

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First off...welcome aboard. It's always interesting and illuminating to hear from someone with first hand knowledge of these rifles in actual service.

Your post certainly poses an interesting question or two regarding the purpose and origins of the wood screw that we've all come to know and love as the "Ishy screw". Peter Laidler recently posted on the Jouster site about a batch of British cadet rifles (No.4s) that turned up with the screw and no connection at all to India.

Curiouser and curiouser...
 

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I have an Ishy that has the screw and the brass pin...dated 1987 (but appears to be much older). Cartouche on the buttstock suggests India service, 2/A.
 

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I certainly have never seen this stock screw on any of the Enfield rifles in service here.The rifles that were sold by the Indian govt. were infact condemned firearms and were sold as scrap.It may be possible that exporter or the importer added the screw to hold the fore-end together.Now if only some one would take out the screw and we can find out if, infact ,it is what is holding the wood together.

If you want to find out that the stock was originally fitted by RFI, scrap off the finish and you should either get white wood (some call it Ishapore wood:)) with out a lot of visible grain or Sheesham, which is a cousin of rosewood.
 

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I certainly have never seen this stock screw on any of the Enfield rifles in service here.The rifles that were sold by the Indian govt. were infact condemned firearms and were sold as scrap.It may be possible that exporter or the importer added the screw to hold the fore-end together.Now if only some one would take out the screw and we can find out if, infact ,it is what is holding the wood together.

If you want to find out that the stock was originally fitted by RFI, scrap off the finish and you should either get white wood (some call it Ishapore wood:)) with out a lot of visible grain or Sheesham, which is a cousin of rosewood.Very little possibility of the latter and greater possibility of you finding the former.
Could you please explain, if Ishapore never fitted this transverse screw;
1. Why British servicemen who served in India prior to '47 saw this screw on Indian service rifles?
2. Why imports from India over decades, not just the last couple of consignments, have had this screw embedded with grease & paint not shiny & virgin implanted by the importer as you suggest?
3. Why the new unissued Ishapore stocks I have in front of me not only have the Ishapore screw but are Lauan Mahogany not white wood as you claim?

I'm sorry to be a doubting Thomas but you are going to have to come up with something more substantial than a your name to get me to change my mind.
 

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Could you please explain, if Ishapore never fitted this transverse screw;
1. Why British servicemen who served in India prior to '47 saw this screw on Indian service rifles?
2. Why imports from India over decades, not just the last couple of consignments, have had this screw embedded with grease & paint not shiny & virgin implanted by the importer as you suggest?
3. Why the new unissued Ishapore stocks I have in front of me not only have the Ishapore screw but are Lauan Mahogany not white wood as you claim?

I'm sorry to be a doubting Thomas but you are going to have to come up with something more substantial than a your name to get me to change my mind.
I am uncertain if our new member has been misled by local urban legend or there is something else afoot. He is consistent, though. See at the end of this thread.

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=63756
 

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sukhpreet,
I have removed the screws and they do NOT hold the fore arm together; I have replaced them with a wood plug to make the rifle look 'better'.

Please check around more for info and reference or copy some official documents if you have them.
 

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I have a GF rifle, Enfield 1916, D^D on reciever ring, MA/51 on the left side of the butt socket, FTR over the serial no. on receiver ring, it has sheet metal reenforcement bands and the "ishy" bolt.
 

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I was not talking about GF rifles but standard issue infantry rifles.

I am talking about this general perception that is was a practice at RFI to put a wood screw through all the rifles that were made by it or that came to it for refurbishment,the dreaded 'Ishy screw'.General issue rifles, either made by RFI or refurbished by them certainly, do not have it.

I have as yet not come across a rifle that is in use here,with this screw,in the last 30 years.However,I do not claim to have seen every 303 and 7.62 Enfield rifle in India.

RFI made firearms had a number of finishes including parkerization and bluing.The unit armorer would also blue the firearms.The balck paint slobbered all over the firearm is done generally prior to being stored.A rifle in that state will not be useable.

There seem to be rifles out there with a wood screw through the stock,with no Indian connection.

The wood used by RFI was either sheesham/shisham(Dalbergia sisoo) or white wood of some kind.Mahogany might have been used as India also has a small quatity of it.Mahogany would be expensive and so is unlikely.The bulk of the stocks were of sheesham as it is abudant and thus cheap.It is a heavy and extremely hard wood reddish or golden brown in clour with dark grain.I know a person who used to supply this to the factory.

As far as getting an official document is concerned,I doubt that any would be available for the period prior to 1947.As it is,Indian Defence Industry establishments are extremely secretive and getting any sort of information will be well nigh impossible.

Since there seem to be British rifles with these screws,perhaps you can check if there were some instructions issued on their use by them.The RFI,was a British plant though based in what was then a British colony.It was controlled by them and so this might have been approved for use by them.There might have been some sort of order/instruction/communication on their use.

You can choose to believe or not believe me,that is your sweet will.Just adding my two pence.

At the end of it,it's just a screw:)
 

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I was not talking about GF rifles but standard issue infantry rifles.
So was I.

I am talking about this general perception that is was a practice at RFI to put a wood screw through all the rifles that were made by it or that came to it for refurbishment,the dreaded 'Ishy screw'.General issue rifles, either made by RFI or refurbished by them certainly, do not have it.
Rubbish. you fly in the face of known facts.



I have as yet not come across a rifle that is in use here,with this screw,in the last 30 years.However,I do not claim to have seen every 303 and 7.62 Enfield rifle in India.
I then suggest that you haven't seen ANY Indian made or refurbished Lee Enfield.


There seem to be rifles out there with a wood screw through the stock,with no Indian connection.
No one is denying that others also, in imitation of Ishapore, fitted transverse screws.

The wood used by RFI was either sheesham/shisham(Dalbergia sisoo) or white wood of some kind.Mahogany might have been used as India also has a small quatity of it.Mahogany would be expensive and so is unlikely.The bulk of the stocks were of sheesham as it is abudant and thus cheap.It is a heavy and extremely hard wood reddish or golden brown in clour with dark grain.I know a person who used to supply this to the factory.
You start this paragraph saying that sheesham/shisham is a white wood & finish it saying that it is a reddish or golden brown with a dark grain. Definite lack of consistency there IMHO.

At the end of it,it's just a screw:)
Yes and despite your protests an Ishapore screw.
 
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