Gunboards Forums banner

1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm new to the boards and am rolling out my limited selection of milsurps after having them hanging on the wall. I've had this Century Arms import for about 20 years (it still has the little booklet from CA zip tied to the sling swivel).

This is an Ishapore 1944, with matching bolt, receiver and muzzle/bayonet piece serials. It came with a 1907 Wilkenson bayonet in a black leather scabbard with a faint crown stamp (one my wife's stories about when we met was seeing it propped up against the couch with the 2 feet of bayonet the first time she came to the house...). I'm getting ready to tear it down and give it the full meal deal clean up. It appears to have green parkerization discoloring along and into the areas going down into the wood. The butt plate is solid brass, and looks like the Loch Ness monster inside. Sadly no surprises in the butt stock, but while the wood is pretty dry externally, it's not, well, terrible. Magazine is not a match, and looks like it has endured a crappy black paint job in. All of the metal is sitting with a WD40 soak right now so I can take down all of the screws and get it out of the stock.

Do's and Don'ts please - I'm going through the boards tonight, but would love any advice on what NOT to do to screw this up. Let me know if there are other photos that would help out.

Also - in looking at the stock marking, is there a list of Ishapore wood marking codes out there, by chance?

Thank you for any help.



1 Butt plate first look.jpg 2 Butt grime.jpg 3 Bolt serial.jpg 4 Receiver.jpg 5 Date stamp.jpg 6 Stock marks.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,476 Posts
Big DON'T.

Do NOT remove the butt from the rifle before removing the forend.
There is a specific order of dissasembly with LE's and not doing it will result in serious damage to the forend. (splitting it)

Once all the metal work is removed the forend should be 'tapped' downwards over the draws, the wood will need to move slightly forward as it goes 'downwards'. This is best achieved by cutting a wooden block into a U-shape that just slides over the action and touches the forend on each side. Gently tap until it starts to drop.
NEVER pull the forend down from the muzzle (you are not cocking an air rifle) as serious damage will occur to the draws.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,004 Posts
Wd40 will probably work for now but don't get into the habit of using it long term. In spite of its miracle type reputation, get a proper gun oil once its cleaned up.
Allow me to reiterate what Allen has said. Under no circumstances should you ever tip the forend downwards to remove it. The draws are corresponding angled areas where the wood meets the action body/receiver. Tipping the wood down will crush the draws resulting in a cracked stock and improper bedding.
Allen and I are in different camps but the end results are the same. I flip the rifle over and tap the metal away from the wood using a plastic mallet. Just a few raps on the trigger guard screw boss and they slide apart without using a wood block.

Loosen the main screw (king screw) first before attempting to loosen the rear screw. In this way you'll relieve the tension and help to avoid messing up the smaller one.
Assembly is in reverse order. Start the threads in the king screw but do not tighten. You're only positioning. Then snug the rear screw before torquing the king screw tight as in gorilla tight. The snugged rear screw will then be tensioned tight enough.

You are very fortunate to still have a WW2 era Ishapore stock on the rifle. Most have since been replaced before having been surplused.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
336 Posts
you can take the butt off an ishapore smle first, they did away with the square on the stock bolt and fitted a spring washer instead. every ishapore i have seen/owned has been like this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,004 Posts
you can take the butt off an ishapore smle first, they did away with the square on the stock bolt and fitted a spring washer instead. every ishapore i have seen/owned has been like this.
Yes, but no. I wouldn't suggest going that direction simply because the norm isn't always a constant when it comes to Enfields. All it takes is that one time to make a very costly and highly regrettable mistake.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,476 Posts
you can take the butt off an ishapore smle first, they did away with the square on the stock bolt and fitted a spring washer instead. every ishapore i have seen/owned has been like this.
Can you guarantee that in the last 70 years no one has removed the butt,, chewed up the bolt head and replaced it with another bolt ?

The 1st time you take a rifle apart it should be done 'by the book'. In future when you know what has been done / not done to it you can make up your own 'rules'.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,039 Posts
I got a question about the OP's rifle. It has a brass butt plate. Now I had a 1944 Ishy about 20 years ago and mine had an aluminum butt plate.

When did Ishapore switch over to aluminum?

Or were both metals used at the same time for making butt plates?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,307 Posts
Hard for me to determine but that butt stock looks stripped and sanded...is that the case?
Rifle looks cleaned up already (except under butt plate), I am wondering why bother tearing it apart to clean it up.

I am not a Ishaphore collector but I know I've never seen a 1944 GRI and if I had, leaving it alone is what I'd do.
Would I buy that rifle in that condition, yes I would as it appears to be a fine condition rifle.

Now would I leave it cosmolened to death in old grease ...no, I'd clean it up to shoot it but there are some here
who would die to have that rifle all dirty, gritty and in the grease.

WD 40 does take cosmolene and grease off effortlessly and like some other commenters here, I find no other use
for it on fire arms.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks to you all... this is great stuff!. I had not learned the about the forend yet - I believe that I understand the premise, but will look for a YouTube maybe just to make sure I'm understanding the angles. Unless someone wants to do a pencil drawing with stick figures, and arrows denoting motion :). I am reminded of an incident with my old M1 Garand (a sweet little International Harvester with Brit Proofs, but that's a different story) - it had a very tight fore grip, which I knew. Sitting in the team room, one of my more senior sergeants was watching me struggle with it. "Dammit, give me that. You just have to [SNAP!] - ummm, well, crap." Ended up shearing a 1/8" by 3/8" splinter down the left side of the entire piece. Harsh words ensued.

JB, the WD40 is a one off - I have all of the legitimate lubes, rust cleaners, etc. - so this treatment is specifically just for the break down. The only thing that I have that lives in a state of regular WD40 is my old 870 duck gun with home made camo job due to getting soaked all of the time. Sometimes that first shot over the decoys is an impressive fireball. It does get regular lube as well...

Great to hear on the stock - After looking over the stampings under the work light, I'm going to be very careful with this wood. It's got some as expected dings and a couple of places where an off white marking paint is still extant - behind the bolt it looks like there was once a white square painted - possibly for a rack number or the like. The other place looks like a sloppy 3" dribble and will need to come off.

So, it sounds like I should be hunting down a sling and cleaning kit at this point. More to follow after today's follies.
Again - my thanks!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,476 Posts
It's got some as expected dings and a couple of places where an off white marking paint is still extant - behind the bolt it looks like there was once a white square painted - possibly for a rack number or the like. The other place looks like a sloppy 3" dribble and will need to come off.
Before stripping off the paint get a close look at what's really there.
The Indian marking for a DP (Not to be fired) Red & White stripe (it looked like a Red/White/Red 'candy stripe') often around the action & magazine but sometimes marked on the Butt.
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: JB White

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Oi. That's disconcerting... I'll send a couple of pictures later, Alan, for a second look.

Milprileb. Yes, it came with the rear area looking cleaner and fresher than the rest of the wood. Now I'm worried that someone may have stripped it down to get a DP marking off. Not that I have any intention of firing this one. The reason for taking it down is just to check for any rust areas that I can abate, general curiosity, and to capture any additional stamps/markings. Some Hoppe's, reassembly and I'll leave it be after the clean up. I'd like to put the appropriate cleaning gear in it (and leave it for the next owner to find in a couple of decades ;) ).

Also, because the real ones cost so much here in the States, my No. 36 Mk Is: (Nerd Alert - the purists will likely roll their eyes - 3D printed, beautiful little kits and were a lot of fun to do) there are these... if I can find a grenade cup to mount, this LE will end up in my office area . I'm almost done with the crates, the top one is actually my humidor:


1 Final.jpg 2 Stack.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,039 Posts
Oi. That's disconcerting... I'll send a couple of pictures later, Alan, for a second look.

Milprileb. Yes, it came with the rear area looking cleaner and fresher than the rest of the wood. Now I'm worried that someone may have stripped it down to get a DP marking off. Not that I have any intention of firing this one. The reason for taking it down is just to check for any rust areas that I can abate, general curiosity, and to capture any additional stamps/markings. Some Hoppe's, reassembly and I'll leave it be after the clean up. I'd like to put the appropriate cleaning gear in it (and leave it for the next owner to find in a couple of decades ;) ).

Also, because the real ones cost so much here in the States, my No. 39 Mk Is: (Nerd Alert - the purists will likely roll their eyes - 3D printed, beautiful little kits and were a lot of fun to do) there are these... if I can find a grenade cup to mount, this LE will end up in my office area . I'm almost done with the crates, the top one is actually my humidor:


View attachment 3808700 View attachment 3808701



Nice grenades!,


You made those wooden crates?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Why Yes... yes I did! Super happy with them, actually. My niece did the stencils with a Cricut after I did all of the base work in power point. They are as accurate as I can do at this point, I've got to finish up the NZ crate sealing tapes and the WD #8 marking, but almost there. That and take off the modern green end prints from the lumber mill. The lot marking numbers are actually the correct ones for the production dates. Info cadged from some Mills' experts site. Fascinating rabbit hole.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,039 Posts
Why Yes... yes I did! Super happy with them, actually. My niece did the stencils with a Cricut after I did all of the base work in power point. They are as accurate as I can do at this point, I've got to finish up the NZ crate sealing tapes and the WD #8 marking, but almost there. That and take off the modern green end prints from the lumber mill. The lot marking numbers are actually the correct ones for the production dates. Info cadged from some Mills' experts site. Fascinating rabbit hole.

Are those grenades resin or real ones? Someone on fleabay sells unpainted resin/plastic ones. I've been looking for a real one for several months now and cannot find anybody here in the US who has one to sell.

Do you sell those wooden crates ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Are those grenades resin or real ones? Someone on fleabay sells unpainted resin/plastic ones. I've been looking for a real one for several months now and cannot find anybody here in the US who has one to sell.

Do you sell those wooden crates ?
Question 1. Those are 3D printed in ABS, I'll look for the link and post below. A young man in Russia did the design work (he designed the launcher cup in 3D as well), and is easy to communicate with - you actually pay an intermediary 3D hosting site and not a Nigerian Prince. If you have any level of model building or general hobby skills, they are a lot of fun to work on. Just know that while the bodies are pretty robust, the smaller pieces need to be treated lovingly. The resin (or worse, rubber) copies I've seen are not very attractive, and these are easy to render a weighty, metallic look to the final product. Resin used to be the way to go, but it is all dependent on the quality of the casting - and number of sub components. Akin to a cast M16 dummy in one piece, versus one made up of 20 pieces.

Question 2. I've never thought about it - let's talk (note - I've 2 old colleagues that have sent me Conversations this weekend, that I've been unable to respond to - I don't know if I have something screwed up in my account settings, or if I am too new to have communication rights, as I joined this weekend).

Honestly, now that I have the measurements down, I could certainly crank a few out. The Humidor version was a whole 'nother level of pain... and is lined with not cheap Spanish Cedar. The hardest part now that I've worked through the beta testing is line whipping the ends of the rope handles with my my big, old fingers. Would you want them stenciled or blank?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,476 Posts
Sisu - I don't suppose you fancy doing some Type 23 Grenades which were the original ones for the No1 Mk3 rifle.

I have the No3 'launcher' but no Type 23 grenades.

The bracket was fitted to the end of a Short Magazine Lee Enfield rifle and held a No23 Grenade which was fitted with a rod screwed into the base plate.
The No 3 Grenade Launcher was adopted to enable the launching of a No 23, or a similar bomb from a Lee Enfield Rifle, it’s base had a threaded hole into which a rod could be screwed, this was fed down the barrel of the gun after the launching bracket had been mounted. The former was then fired using a blank cartridge.

No5 Grenades had no hole in the base plate, but a No 23 base would fit a No 5 Grenade.
So it follows that many No 5 units can be found with No 23 bases.
The launchers intention was to hold the safety lever in place, after the pin had been removed, until the unit was fired.



20200701_125741.jpg
cups,%20discharger.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Link - I am not affiliated with the seller, and hopefully this doesn't break any rules. At $6, I was really happy with the results. You have to find your own crony to with a 3D printer to run the copies out for you... I think they ended up costing me $12 each printed. Before cotter pins, rings, etc...


Alan - just saw your post... talk to the designer directly, but if you look through his No. 36s they have multiple variants, and I'm betting he could do up the 23s in short order. I'd be happy to do the hobby builds for a couple just for fun.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,039 Posts
Question 1. Those are 3D printed in ABS, I'll look for the link and post below. A young man in Russia did the design work (he designed the launcher cup in 3D as well), and is easy to communicate with - you actually pay an intermediary 3D hosting site and not a Nigerian Prince. If you have any level of model building or general hobby skills, they are a lot of fun to work on. Just know that while the bodies are pretty robust, the smaller pieces need to be treated lovingly. The resin (or worse, rubber) copies I've seen are not very attractive, and these are easy to render a weighty, metallic look to the final product. Resin used to be the way to go, but it is all dependent on the quality of the casting - and number of sub components. Akin to a cast M16 dummy in one piece, versus one made up of 20 pieces.

Question 2. I've never thought about it - let's talk (note - I've 2 old colleagues that have sent me Conversations this weekend, that I've been unable to respond to - I don't know if I have something screwed up in my account settings, or if I am too new to have communication rights, as I joined this weekend).

Honestly, now that I have the measurements down, I could certainly crank a few out. The Humidor version was a whole 'nother level of pain... and is lined with not cheap Spanish Cedar. The hardest part now that I've worked through the beta testing is line whipping the ends of the rope handles with my my big, old fingers. Would you want them stenciled or blank?





There are some members on here (me included) who've love to buy a replica Mills crate.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top