[Vaarok]

I got this in a box of sporterized milsurp parts. I'm unsure if it's Belgian carbine or Martini rifle. I'm unable to tell for sure, so I have come to the experts.

 

[DoubleD]

I don't think it's Martini. Closest to it is MEC. The ME Carbine band is a full band and not open on top, has one cross pin and a split loop for a sling swivel.

 

[coggansfield]

20 Sep. 2007
1pm

That's a fascinating part. Seems to be designed for the pattern 1888 bayonet, which would be strange on a Belgian military part.

DD is right: it looks to be made for a Martini-Enfield of some sort. However, it is not the same as the equivalent parts on the two sorts of Martini-Enfield designed for the pattern 1888 bayonet.

The Martini-Enfield artillery carbine series (and the corresponding Martini-Metford arty. carbine series), used a fully encircling noseband with a large, square cut-out on the underside, which, when swivelled around to be on the top, slid over the front sight.

A few Martini-Enfield rifles were made for the P-88 bayonet but they, once again, had an encircling noseband (though with a smaller and differently shaped cut-out for the front sight). See the attached picture of a Martini-Enfield rifle made for the P-88 bayonet.

My best guess on this one — and it is just a guess — is that it is for a commercial .303 Martini of some sort (perhaps Belgian, but made for a British market), loosely patterned on, but not identical to, either the carbine or rifle types I have described above.

Does your noseband have an British military inspection marks on it? If no, then I’m pretty sure my guess is a good one. If yes, then it’s back to the drawing board.

Coggansfield

 

[Vaarok]

Thanks for the appraisals, I knew it was going to be a tricky one. No proofmarks whatsoever on it, I checked before I asked. Just an odd shaped bayo lug, so I compared to every bayonet mast on every rifle I'd ever seen or owned, and the closest I came was my shiny new Martini-Enfield, and like everybody agrees, even that's not quite right.

I'll also admit a minor error. I didn't mean Belgian-made Martini-action carbine, I meant Belgian (or maybe it was Dutch?) Mauser. Someone on the Mauser forum had a carbine of some rare sort that had a similar looking bayonet lug. But it looks so awful close to the nosecap for a Martini (local shop has a Khyber carbine with a lug exactly like you pictured, Coggansfield) I figured I should ask here to see if anybody could tell for sure.

I guess I'm gonna go pop over to the Mauser forum and ask if they're the rightful clan of this lonely little widget.


Hey, waitasec... Could this be part of a variant of Lee-Metford? It's like a Martini but slightly different, both rifles were similar timeframe... Mauser forum AND Lee-Enfield Forum...

 

[Vaarok]

Aha!

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=3390

 

[John Sukey]

No. At least not on my metfords Though it could have been altered. They both have the nose cap going around the barrel, Even the Long Lees have the band circling the barrel. Same for the LE type commercial carbines.

 

[DoubleD]

Does the LM have double cross pin? I don't think this a Lee Metford part. I don't think this is a modified part either and it's the double cross pin that makes me say it.

I can see the top being cut away and the swivel eyes being removed to sporterize and "pretty up" this piece. I can not see drilling a second cross pin hole that moves to ugly.

 

[jsim]

Despite doubts expressed above I have to say this looks very much like the fore-end cap for my Magazine Lee Metford Mk1*. I don't have a photo of the item disassembled, but here is one of it in place. You can clearly see that the cap is held in place on the fore-end by a fairly chunky cross screw, while the band carrying the sling swivel and piling swivel is a separate piece held on by a slim cross pin.

John

 

[GrantRCanada]

Must agree that this would seem to be a nosecap for the MkI and MkI* Magazine Lee-Metford rifle, which differed from the design used on the later MLM and MLE rifles. A definite prize!

Drawings from Skennerton's ".303 Magaizine Lee-Metford and Magazine Lee-Enfield" (S.A.I.S. #7) -

 

[DoubleD]

Now Grant that does look like it!!

 

[Vaarok]

Aha! That's exactly it. Somebody on the Lee-Enfield forum already bespoke for it, but I was concerned he was mistaking it for a similar part out of desperation. But now I see he knew what he needed, and I do indeed have one.

Thanks for the great picture!

 

[Herbert Rogers]

The nose cap looks very much like the one on the Martini Metford Rifle Mark 1 South Australian Pattern or the Holy of Holies namely the Martini Metford Artillery Carbine Mark 1. I have my doubts about my second guess as ( 1 ) only example was produced for trial prior to moving on to the MM AC Mark 11 which has the one piece nosecap.

Gut feel tells me that Grant is on the right track and I’d put money on it being a Lee Metford rifle Mk 1 or Mk 1* nosecap.
Cheers
Herbert Rogers

 

[Neil]

Metford rifle MKI part

It was a Metford MKI cap....just in case anyone has a spare outer band for the same or indeed any Metford MKI metal parts, can they eMail or PM me please. Perhaps I have some parts you need in exchange or....?

 

[chester]

It was a Metford MKI cap....just in case anyone has a spare outer band for the same or indeed any Metford MKI metal parts, can they eMail or PM me please. Perhaps I have some parts you need in exchange or....?

Neil" where are you?

 

[Neil]

I'm here

Chester your eMail or PM facility is not working? Can you drop me an eMail direct off forum please? (hanks for the hope...I hope)) Cheers Neil.

[email protected]

 

[chester]

Chester your eMail or PM facility is not working? Can you drop me an eMail direct off forum please? (hanks for the hope...I hope)) Cheers Neil.

[email protected]

Neil, I thought i had some barrel bands and some other bits. I will have a good look on the weekend. cheers chester.

 

[Neil]

Suspense

Thanks for getting back Chester and roll on the weekend) Best if you send an eMail direct then I can write back as this logging on due to time diff is doing me in))

Cheers Neil.