[Rick N.]

Where can I get info on markings, proofs, etc ?? I just traded for a beautiful rifle, excellent black walnut wood, seems complete. All s/n's match, no import stamps. Overall in great condition. I need a source of info ( book, website, etc. ) that can tell me what the marks mean, and maybe value.

Thanks, Rick

 

[John Sukey In Memoriam]

www.skennerton.com
The BROAD ARROW
BRITSH and EMPIRE
Factory Production ,Proof, Inspection,Armourers, Unit, & Issue markings.
In othr words it's goldmine of information

 

[Rick N.]

John, is that a book ? The little brass plate on the stock has " PW " stamped on it, what does that mean ?

 

[Father Vinnie]

Is my No.1 MKIII about to blow up on me?

Hey, forgive me if I'm not following proper posting protocol. I have a question regarding my Lee-Enfield No.1 MKIII. The thing is accurate as can be, but after each shot the bolt comes up about one-quarter inch all by itself. Is this a sign that the tolerances are all too sloppy and my rifle has just become a pure "wall hanger"? I have used some old Canadian surplus ammo that seemed pretty hot; is the WWI era No.1 MKIII just not able to handle the WWII era ammo? I've got 100 rounds of ammo I just ordered from J and G sales, but I'm a little bit edgy about using it for fear that I'm going to have the bolt come back on me and do some real damage. Any thoughts? Thanks for your time!

I've also wondered if the Lee-Enfield action was perhaps designed to have the bolt come up a bit after each shot, so as to help the soldier cycle the action more quickly. But if the bolt movement is caused by gasses sneaking past the bolt face, that has me worried.

 

[Rick N.]

Wow Vinnie, you got me there,but it sure doesn't sound good !! I hope to shoot mine this weekend, and if it shoots as good as it looks, it will be a keeper.

 

[JollyGreenSlugg]

The bolt handle movement on firing that you describe is standard for my Lee-Enfields. It hasn't bothered me at all.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[03man]

FV,
If you start your own thread, you will likely get more answers. You also might try the search feature, this has been covered a couple times in other threads.

 

[Rick N.]

OK......... Back to the original questions........... What does " PW " on the brass stock disc mean ?

 

[JollyGreenSlugg]

There are plenty of stock disk markings which are lost to history. Bearing in mind that Lee-Enfields saw service in quite a few countries, the chances of it being something obvious are slim. Even though stock disks weren't a part of production after mid-WW1, there were plenty of rifes with stock disks in circulation for decades, and some details may have been applied quite late, if not in main service then certainy with cadets or the like.

Sometimes other markings on the rifle can give a clue. If there are markings on the wood or metal which can be traced to a particular country, that could narrow the search down somewhat. What year and manufacturer details are on your rifle, on the metal buttsocket or 'wrist' under where the bolt handle sits? Are there any markings on the wood of the buttstock? Elsewhere on the rifle? How about symbols or other characters in the metal?

The links on this page may help;
http://home.earthlink.net/~smithkaia8/index.html


Pictures would help, but a few details could help also.

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Rick N.]

I will try to describe the marks. On the band under the bolt it has a Crown, then Enfield, 1916, SMLE, III*. " PW " on the little brass disc, N635 on several parts ( s/n ), a Crown over F2 over E, Crown over GR over what looks like crossed swords, over E, an arrow head-like mark over EFC over 16, HV over SC. I am taking it to the gunshow this weekend, hope to get some info there also.

 

[JollyGreenSlugg]

Thanks Rick. The serial number should be the same on the rear of the bolt handle, the receiver (and barrel usually), the nosecap, probably under the rearsight arm and in the wood just behind the nosecap.

If you're looking for value, it depends on where you are and what the market is locally, as well as condition. How's the bore?

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Rick N.]

The bore looks great Matt, S/n is in all places you said it would be in, I have been looking at that link you sent, the GR might stand for GHURKA RIFLES, the HV for having been sighted for mark VII high velocity ammo ( maybe )......

 

[jrhead75]

GR = Georgius Rex = King George.

 

[Rick N.]

King George, cool !!! Is it a common one ?

 

[Rick N.]

Just learned something else, it has the magazine cut-out groove, Guess its found on older model parts. Where else should I look for markings ? Which tells me who made it ? I will try to post pictures tonight. Should I take it apart to look for markings ? Thanks for the help guys.

Rick
702-416-4800 ( c )
[email protected]

 

[GunnerSam]

Hey, forgive me if I'm not following proper posting protocol. I have a question regarding my Lee-Enfield No.1 MKIII. The thing is accurate as can be, but after each shot the bolt comes up about one-quarter inch all by itself. Is this a sign that the tolerances are all too sloppy and my rifle has just become a pure "wall hanger"? I have used some old Canadian surplus ammo that seemed pretty hot; is the WWI era No.1 MKIII just not able to handle the WWII era ammo? I've got 100 rounds of ammo I just ordered from J and G sales, but I'm a little bit edgy about using it for fear that I'm going to have the bolt come back on me and do some real damage. Any thoughts? Thanks for your time!

I've also wondered if the Lee-Enfield action was perhaps designed to have the bolt come up a bit after each shot, so as to help the soldier cycle the action more quickly. But if the bolt movement is caused by gasses sneaking past the bolt face, that has me worried.

A very old book on the subject which I read long ago said this was a common thing after the action was proof tested. The locking surfaces taking a very slight setback with a nearly unmeasurable angle.
It wasn't by design but apparently some did consider it benefical in allowing more rapid manipulation of the bolt.
The handle will usually lift as much when dry fired as when fired with a live round, so I figure its a matter of the forwards motion of the firing pin and slight recoil effect on the bolt from th at movement than from pass pressures.
My No.4 has no bolt lift at all, but I replaced the original deeply pitted spring with a spring identical in every way except its wound in the opposite direction. Replacing the spring greatly cut down on the lift of the very worn non matching bolt body that came with the rifle, then when I replaced bolt body and bolt head with new condition parts all bolt lift disappeared.

The mechanism of the firing pin moving in its track will prevent the bolt from springing open.

I figure there are several factors at work there a torsion effect from the spring and/or the coils of the spring contacting the inside of the bolt are just part of the mix.
I am pretty sure the motion is due to movement of the firing pin and its spring rather than a reaction to chamber pressure, though the effect is more pronounced as the locking surfaces wear in.

 

[GunnerSam]

Just learned something else, it has the magazine cut-out groove, Guess its found on older model parts. Where else should I look for markings ? Which tells me who made it ? I will try to post pictures tonight. Should I take it apart to look for markings ? Thanks for the help guys.

Rick
702-416-4800 ( c )
[email protected]

One source, it may have been Stratton said that Action bodies were manufactured in runs and sometimes weren't built into completed rifles till years after they were made.
I'm told that the pattern for the Mk III* wasn't set till mid to late 1916 so some have the cut and others don't.
My No.1 is a 1915 with the cut, so ours actions would be much the same in construction, maybe from the same batch.

 

[jrhead75]

The specs for the MkIII* were entered into the LoC in January of 1916.

It wouldn't necessarily be all that odd for a 1916 rifle to be assembled on a MkIII action body, especially if it were produced early in the year.

 

[GunnerSam]

The specs for the MkIII* were entered into the LoC in January of 1916.

It wouldn't necessarily be all that odd for a 1916 rifle to be assembled on a MkIII action body, especially if it were produced early in the year.

Would you say that Mk III* actions without the cut started showing up mid to late 1916?

 

[jrhead75]

Some MkIII*s were produced in 1915...some MkIIIs were still being produced in 1918. From the data that's available to my knowledge, it's impossible to say when exactly the first slotless receiver appeared.

It's still a matter of some debate as to whether slots were cut into MkIII* action bodies during the inter-war return to the modified MkIII standard. There are certainly examples of MkIII*s with the asterisk lined out.