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Hey Gents, I was just reading up on NFA rules and regs, and some of it I didn't understand. I apologize in advance if this is a sticky somewhere, but I didn't see it. (Maybe it should be).

So, obviously I am aware of the 1986 ban and so forth, but is it legal for someone to buy a newly manufactured automatic weapon from, for instance, DSA? I'm sure if it is there are quite a few hoops to jump through, and taxes to pay.
I suppose they could just be making them for the military, or police, but I was just curious.
http://www.dsarms.com/Mini-SA58-FAL...d-308Cal---SA58OSWNFA/productinfo/SA58OSWNFA/
 

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In Short, no and there are no loop holes either...

Any firearm not registered before 1986 CAN NOT be registered for private ownership. Newly made falls under this.

This would be a dealer sample. Which means you must be an FFL with a police sign off to get this firearm. Then you can only keep it so long as you are an FFL.

Its really easy to figure out the guns you can own... they are the expensive ones. They will be on a Form 3 or 4.

I know... it sucks but you can be sure that if there was a way to get these gun cheap and legal, we would all be doing it...
 

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To be more concise, one must be an FFL AND pay the Special Occupational Tax (SOT), assessed yearly at $500 or $1000, to possess post-May samples, and the police don't merely sign off on these restricted MGs, but must request a demonstration of the MG by letter which accompanies the transfer application to ATF for transfer into the FFL/SOTs inventory. Many MG addicts become FFL/SOTs specifically to possess post-May restricted MGs, because they are the least expensive.
Just sayin'.......

Bob Naess
FFL07/SOTII
 

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Might as well explain the difference between Post May and Pre May dealer samples too... Bob please correct me if I am wrong. On a Pre May dealer sample the FFL/SOT may keep the Firearm after he gives up his FFL/SOT... there by it becomes a transferable firearm. However on Post May dealer samples, once the FFL/SOT gives up his FFL/SOT, the individual may no longer keep the firearm. Thats why the PreMay pricing is between Transferable and Post May deal samples.

Of course all this is only for Full auto... NOT suppressors/SBRs, SBSs, DDs, AOWs... which can still me manufactured.
 

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... On a Pre May dealer sample the FFL/SOT may keep the Firearm after he gives up his FFL/SOT... there by it becomes a transferable firearm. ...
Not quite. Pre-sample guns may be kept by the former SOT-holder but they do not become "a transferrable firearm." They still retain their dealer sample status and can only be transferrecd to another FFL/SOT. Note that unlike a post-sample gun transfer of a pre-sample does not require a LE love letter.

For the original poster, here's a good link to get you started:
http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/nfa_faqhtml.html
It's a bit dated in regards to the now-defunct 1994 AW ban in relation to SBRs and SBSs but the rest is good to go.
 

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A dealer giving up his FFL/SOT can retain the pre-May sales samples, but when he transfers them, as required, to an FFL/SOT upon sale, the transfer is tax paid by form 4. As an individual he can no longer transfer out of his name him tax exempt, even though the MG is a dealer restricted firearm. There are other quirks of being a licensee in regard to pre and post samples, but they're not really relevant to the discussion.

Bob Naess
 

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John Sukey notes:
>If you purchase a REGISTERED de-act WITH the paperwork, it can be re-activated.
However they are very hard to find as that has already been done by lots of people.<


In reality, registered DEWATs are all over the place! I have reactivated five Lewis guns since Christmas, and at least half a dozen other types of MGs since the fall. Have another Lewis headed in, an MP40, an MG08, and 08/15 and an MP28. Just talked with a buyer who purchased five registered DEWATs, incuding a '41 Johnson LMG and a DP28.
There are still thousands of registered DEWATs in the woodwork, often in the possession of estates. They show up all the time. Aggressive buyers ferret them out by talking to dealers, friends who own MGs, scour the internet and frequent shows like Knob Creek, SAR East and West and many other shows. They are popular, that is for sure, and there are lots of them still out there.


Bob Naess
Black River Militaria CII
 

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Well, that's good news. BUT there are folks who have lost that paperwork over the years, and you MUST have it.

Interestingly enough, my Lewis started our as a dewat. Cost me a new 1911 colt and $100 a long time ago. of course there was the $200 tax to reactivate plus a new barrel.
Oh by the way, a good source for Lewis bits is www.omega-weapons-systems.com He also has parts for other stuff.
 

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Yes, the MG must be listed in the NFRTR to be legally possessed, whether DEWAT or live, but if a registrant has lost the registration paperwork, all that is needed is to verify with ATF/NFA that the weapon is registered and a copy can be obtained, or the MG can be transferred by the appropriate form. All that is needed to transfer an NFA weapon is the correct serial and the name of the current registrant, who also must sign the forms. Often, estates with MGs cannot locate the paperwork, but the executor or legal rep can confirm with ATF that the MGs are registered in the name of the deceased and obtain copies, or with the confirmation move ahead with a transfer.
The genuine problem MGs, for example, are those where the estate has long ago been through probate and the property has been distributed, and the MGs are in the possession of relatives or friends, but the weapons have not been legally transferred. This situation occurs with some frequency. Aside from the fact that a relative or a friend might be in illegal possesson of the MGs, to transfer MGs frozen in this fashion requires a family member to re-open probate, which is a time consuming and extensive project with a lot of required legal details to deal with. Legally, it is a property issue, and ATF has no authority with such circumstances, and only has authority to process the paperwork once a family memeber or the executor has legal authority to sign the forms.
MGs frozen in the names of long deceased registrants often have little chance of being returned to ther active commeercial channels, and the probably are a lot of them. Even when the registrant is alive, sometimes ATF is negligent in researching the NFRTR to verify that an MG is registered. One of my customers bought two DEWATs from a very compromised friend, who wanted to deal with the guns before he passed away. Form 5s went to ATF to transfer them to my customer and one MG came back approved, the other they could not verify that it was registered to the elderly man. The customer had put the serial of the gun onto the form 5s, but it turned out the serial was incorrectly listed in the NFRTR. Instead of researching further, ATF just declared that the gun was not registered. However, with several more phone calls to specific personnel at ATF, I managed to get them to cross reference the name of the registrant with the serial on record. The name was in the record, with correct ID of the MG and the incorrect serial number as well, whcih had been incorrectly listed. I revised the form 5 and it was eventually approved.
I have been involved with several MGs which were possessed by friends of the original registrants, and with great effort and detective work, the original registrant has been found. One original registrant, when located and informed that he needed to help with the transfer of his MG, didn't want anythng for signing the transfer forms for the gun that he had given to his friend 40 years earleier, but he did ask for a month's worth of breakfast coupons at his local House of Pancakes......
Anyway, there are registered MGs which will not be transferred out of the names the dead registrants. ATF has no mechanism to deal with these guns, simply because it is a propertly issue and must be resolved through different appropriate legal means. Too bad! But, problem transfers where ATF doesn't do their job thoroughly has been a serious problem since 1934.

Bob Naess
 
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