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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Igor has been kind enough to provide his excellent replica version of a side rail PEM mount for me to evaluate and review for the readers knowledge. I'm in the middle of this with comparisons being done of an original with this excellent reproduction. As Igor has informed us his mounts are faithful in their reproduction of the original but there are some subtle differences between the two mounts that are apparent in a side by side comparison. I will have this up this weekend for the board to review both here and on the main collectors board. I also will be making a copy to add to Mosin Nagant in a section on identifying your sniper as an original and the excellent reproduction mounts and scopes available to the shooter today of the Russian WW2 sniper rifles.

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Michigan Historical Collectables
Owner-operator Gunboards.com
Mosin Nagant.net
http://www.mosinnagant.net



SturmGrenadier
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1493 Posts
Posted - 09/08/2005 : 11:07:44 PM
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Good deal Vic.

Igor is a top notch guy and a professional. After Katrina apparently washed away my original sent PEM, he sent a replacement on Sat and I received my PEM mount on Monday.

I'm very pleased with it.



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capnduane
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member



USA
1277 Posts
Posted - 09/08/2005 : 11:57:21 PM
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Great Vic, can't wait for your report! It will be very interesting to see the differences between the original and reproduction. I have never seen an original PEM mount, I have the repro from Igor, it has the serial # 1 on all parts. Also some of the parts/screws are a plum color. It is excellent. Duane

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Swedish & South American Mausers, Mosins, Enfields, Swiss and some U.S.


Vic
Owner-Operator



USA
10175 Posts
Posted - 09/13/2005 : 11:40:37 PM
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I received Igor's ( Gunboards handle "007 Esq") replica side rail mount for the m/91-30 PE rifle this past week for formal review. The mount on initial inspection is very well made and appeared to be an exact copy of the 1938-1940 Soviet side rail mount for the PEM scope. The fit and finish of the mount looked good and it appeared to have been milled from a piece of bar stock or investment cast and then milled to final contour. Either way it was of quality steel. The unit was blued with a deep blue/black blue and the finish was unable to be removed from rubbing or mild abrasion. I noticed only slight metal flaws on the front portion of the mount where the forward rings sweeps up. Some very mild pitting was found there at the bend leading me to believe that the piece was cast.
The mount arrived with its top and bottom ring sections and the base that affixes the mount to the m/91-30 rifle mated into the dovetail on the rear. The two retention screws were included and retained into the mount with the locking screws. The two locator pins were also supplied and taped to the mount. The locking thumb screw was also included. The mount was devoid of markings but for the serial number placed on the body of the base, mount and each ring section. That serial number on the example sent to me was "3".
igor 1.jpg
igor 7.jpg



The top view of the replica on the left and the original on the right.

igor 2.jpg


In this view you can see the number "3" stamped on the ring sections of the replica mount. On an original the front ring and pivot section is unmarked but for the Tula star on the top of the rings bottom section on the top flat where the pivot screw is located.



The rear section was not serial numbered as an original and was devoid of any markings. An original mount will have the lower section serial numbered to match the body of the mount where the units serial number is located.





The reproduction rear ring section being unnumbered.




The rings of the mount were well formed and fit together with precision. Each ring is retained by 4 screws-two on each side. The reproduction mount also duplicated the recess of an original on the front ring and lower ring section allowing the front pivot screw to be inserted and removed. I did notice as Igor had told me that there were some subtle differences in his mounts and an original and now I was beginning to find them. The reproduction mount uses a domed head screw for the 8 ring screws. An original uses a "cheese" head screw with a flat base. Also the depth of the screw recess in the rings is different to the smaller thickness of the domed head screws used. The thread size and pitch on the repro screws duplicated those of an original and both were interchangeable when I tried the repro screws in an original mount and the original screws in the repro mount. The only problem was the original screws would not be flush with the ring top as they would on an original set of rings.

Reproduction ring on the left ajnd the original on the right




Comparison of the reproduction dome head screw on the left and the original flat topped cheese head screw on the right



igor 10.jpg

In further analysis there were again some subtle differences that are evident when one knows what to look for. The rear section of the side rail mount is responsible for the rough windage of the scope unit while mounted. By adjusting the "push-pull" screws on the rear ring section the mount can be made to swing left or right. This is accomplished by the front pin being threaded only at the tip with the center section just a smooth rod shape to allow the front ring to pivot when adjusted. The rear adjustment screws while seated are close copies for the originals but when removed it is clear that they are thinner in their head depth and the threads are not copies of the originals size and pitch. They were not interchangeable with the originals and originals were not useable in the replica mount.
igor 11.jpg

The orignal on the left and the thinner replica screw on the right. Notice the coarser threads used on the replica windage screw.

igor 12.jpg


The rear of the replica is the primary identifier for me of the replica. the windage graduation scale on the rear is made of a brass colored metal and does not include all of the graduations placed on an original.


igor 8.jpg

The replica mounts rear section with the windage scale in a light brass colored metal and the original in a blued steel. I have other PE side rail mounts that this scale is in the white with blued graduations.

igor 3.jpg


The locking thumb screw used to retain the mount while seated on the rifle is a nice copy of the original. As I understand the early version was just a large screw but this corrected version is a nice copy of the original and sits in the raised portion cylinder on the front of the mount that houses the threads. The edge was nicely seated like it should be but the threads again were not a copy of the original. A coarser thread was used and the two are not interchangeable-the replica will not fit in an original and the original will not seat in the replica.



igor 9.jpg




In my examination I found the mount to be an excellent reproduction that exhibited a faithful adherence to the original. But for the thread size and shape of a few screws, the rear graduation scale and the lack of any proofs or inspection markings it would be difficult to tell this replica from an original if you did not know what to look for. I am impressed with the blued finish and the lack of tooling marks and the finish of the piece. It is a very nice replica. The major difference in this replica side rail set up and an original is found in the base.
The base was a faithful reproduction of an original. It was excellent in shape and appearance. It to was serial numbered on the face with the matching "3" of the mount. The tapered dovetail was well done and mated well with the mounts corresponding female relief.
The retention screws holes and locking screws were well done and recessed as they should be. The locking thumb screws hole was a bit larger than usual and did not appear to have the same tapered shape as the tip of the screw as on an original. This funnel shape to the screw tip and its mating hole in the base is designed to allow the mount to be "self-seating" by the taper. The front of the base has the forward stop pin installed that matches well with the recess in the mount. When the mount and base are fit together they match up well and fit together with ease and are removed easily. The front and rear locator pin holes are also present. In examining the mount on original rifles that have had their bases removed or have had them stripped off the mounts holes seemed to line up well with both the retention screws and the locator pin holes. The corners of the mount were slightly rounded as they should be. But for the lack of the makers marking and the serial number with Cyrillic prefix, the base was nearly indistinguishable from an original.

This comparsion of the replica base below an original on the top.

igor 4.jpg


Another comparison of an original mount on the top, the excellent replica from Igor in the middle and a rather poor reproduction on the bottom with sharp edges and a poor attempt at serial numbering and proof marking it to disguise its origin.





The only flaws that I found on the base numbered only three things. The screws used were again a domed head type and should have been a cheese head flat topped version. The same goes for the locking screws. The screws were blued well and the retention screws even had excellent relief cuts for the locking screws to engage. I was impressed with the attention to detail there. This is a picky thing and of no consequence what so ever. They do not affect fit or looks in any way. The replica screws also were slightly larger in diameter than an original and the thread size was of a coarse thread and different pitch than the original. They were not interchangeable. The front and rear screw were also of the same size where as an original set the rear is slightly longer than the front.




The second difference I found was the thickness of the base. It is noticeable thinner than an original. When I measured it with calipers it was found to be 2mm thinner than an original mount. This is clear when looking at the top and side of the base. How this would affect the sighting of the scope is not known since I did not test fire a weapon with the mount attached due to the differences in screws. Perhaps I will use an original set of screws to mo9unt the unit and see how that plays out and if it has any significance at all.

Original top and replica below in this top view.
igor 6.jpg



An end view of the original on the top and the replica on the bottom. Here the thickness difference is clearly seen and measures nearly 2mm.


igor 5.jpg

My final flaw in the replica was the rings were ever so slightly oversized. When I mounted a PE scope in the rig and tightened the ring screws as tight as I could the scope was easily turned in the rig. I could slide it both forward and rear and spin it in the rings. This could be easily remedied by placing a ring tape on each top ring and bottom or a piece of fine grit sandpaper with the grit facing down towards each ring. This shim would quickly solve the tightness issue. When I looked at several other rigs I found that the rings when tightened down were approximately 1.5mm apart from the base rings. On the replica the rings mated together thus not allowing any more tightening to occur. The rings shape fit the tube perfectly however. On the example sent to me the ring screws also had two screws that were damaged with damaged screw slots so I did not want to over tighten any of them.

All in all I would rate this replica side rail mount a very well made example. Fit, finish and faithfulness to the original was found throughout. Subtle differences do exist and the schooled collector can identify these rather easily. I found the reproduction mount to be well worth the money asked for the unit and base. The price of 395.00 includes the base and all mounting screws and pins and the mount with rings and thumb screw. I find the cost to be very reasonable for the collector wishing to build a replica sniper using one of the ex-snipers on the market or restoring an original to a representational piece with this mount. Originals are very difficult to find and very expensive when they do show up-often costing 3-5 times the price of this mount rig. Thus the collector who can not afford and original now has an option to build a shooter of the rifle that served the Red Army through out the war. This side rail style mount was the version used by the famed Vasily Zaitsev in Stalingrad and for the first time the average collector has a chance to own a replica of that style of rare snipers rifle. I think the unit is a winner and priced right for the budget minded collector interested in these types of rifles. I rate the mount a good buy and is recommended. For purchasing info on this mount or others that he offers, please contact Igor at: [email protected] Shipping was quick and efficient by US Post and the item was well packaged. I will follow up again with a shooting report if and when i can get this mounted to one of my original guns. I'm anxious to get it out to the range. If it holds zero and performs as well as it looks then it is for sure is a great buy for the collector!
 

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PEM side rail mount

He has one for sale on Ebay as we speak....:)
 

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Looks like a Board member picked it up...Good score!...:cool:
 

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does he have a website???
 

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DaWoof,

I browsed ebay and only saw PE mounts and scopes, but they were labelled as PEM units.
Perhaps I'm not searching correctly? Any guidance appreciated.
 

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DaWoof,

I browsed ebay and only saw PE mounts and scopes, but they were labelled as PEM units.
Perhaps I'm not searching correctly? Any guidance appreciated.
Look under Sniper Mount; it's still there...:)
 

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is Igor still making the PEM mounts??
 

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Igor has another one on Ebay right now....;)
 

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are these PEM siderail mounts (im looking for this) or the over-the bore pe style. I aint seeing it
 

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Look under "sniper mount"; it's about half way down...;)
 

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Grabbed the mount off e-bay.Hopefully I can track down a candidate rifle next month.
No rush though this season I'll be concentrating on my K98k LSR with DOW scope.

Thanks
Arte et Marte
Ordnancebob
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I don't know. I'll have to repost them. I think I still have them.
 
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