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I don't know who trained that kid but he either did a hell of a job or the kid is just a natural. I could only hope I could handle myself as well as he did in that situation.
i suspect video games such as call of duty.
 
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Had to go down to the CID office in Saigon one time (Mail clerk in our unit was stealing mail). On the wall they had a poster that said "The One Time You Need A gun and Do Not Have One, You Will Never Need One Again". Might also apply to a Forward Asset in a Combat Environment. John
I train to transition to pistol.
The AR is the only common rifle that I know of that has a forward assist and so it seems in most cases to not to be necessary.
 

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Not everyone has a pistol to transition to. So you have never seen someone have to hit the operating rod on a M1 Carbine, M1 Garand, M14, SKS, AK 47 to get the bolt fully into battery? John
Most civilians have that option. Kyle R did not. My training is to retract the op rod and if pistol the same with the slide.
I can see the forward assist being used proactively when loading a full 30 round mag to make sure that action completely closed. The forward assist does not work unless the action is just short of being closed.

Below this is what is taught by most civilian training schools.
Immediate Action: “Tap, Rack, and Reassess”
The first attempt to remedy any stoppage of an AR-15 should be what those in the know call Immediate Action: “Tap, Rack, and Reassess.”


  1. “Tap” your magazine to be sure it is properly seated
  2. “Rack” pull the charging handle of your AR-15 back swiftly with ample force and release it cleanly
  3. “Reassess” This replaces the “Bang” part of the cycle many veterans were taught. Simply said, before firing, be sure that there is still a reason to do so and that it is still safe to fire. Once those conditions are established, feel free to give the “bang” portion a try.

The Tap, Rack, and Reassess cycle will resolve a great many AR-15 stoppages. In fact, the going estimate is that 90 to 95 percent of all stoppages can be resolved with a quick run through of this process. Most of the stoppages that are cleared in this manner would be considered type 1, simple stoppages that may not have a specific known source. If this doesn’t solve your problem, you may have a more complex stoppage such as the stovepipe jam
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I can see the forward assist being used proactively when loading a full 30 round mag to make sure that action completely closed. The forward assist does not work unless the action is just short of being closed.
Double feeds:
One scenario for double feed happens when you’ve got a tightly loaded 30-round mag is that when the buffer spring isn’t strong enough to push the round all the way into the chamber and you end up with a round halfway out of the mag. Now, the bolt isn’t far enough along to use the forward assist to complete the cycle so what do you do? That’s right, cycle it again. That’s when it picks up the second round and you’ve got a beauty of a double-feed on your hands. Prevention? Yes, prevention is the key to this one. Just don’t load those big mags clear full. There are plenty of guys running 29 rounds in 30-round magazines who never have to figure out how to clear a double feed.
I run at least an H2 buffer in most of what I own so the bolt carrier group should have a little more wt behind it to facilitate feeding.


 

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Does anyone know what the reasoning for his rifle not going into battery?
That would be my question as well as some others' but maybe a Kyle2 interview is forthcoming?
Most -if not all of the closing issues I have witnessed with ARs that are maintained properly are poor quality reloads/ammo defects various . I don't think the weapon/ammo Kyle was using was his so the kid was wise to pay attention to the weapon in his hands-could have been a "dry" AR or a few other things.
 

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That would be my question as well as some others' but maybe a Kyle2 interview is forthcoming?
Most -if not all of the closing issues I have witnessed with ARs that are maintained properly are poor quality reloads/ammo defects various . I don't think the weapon/ammo Kyle was using was his so the kid was wise to pay attention to the weapon in his hands-could have been a "dry" AR or a few other things.
More likely to happen to a newer rifle than one that is broken in. Burrs or out of spec feed ramp. Also maybe an indication of little lube and needing to be cleaned.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
My guess is the previous shot that killed skate boy guy was shot in a very haphazard way. The rifle in the process of being pulled away and the pulled back may have induced a “limp wrist” type of short stroke malfunction.
 

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I train to transition to pistol.
The AR is the only common rifle that I know of that has a forward assist and so it seems in most cases to not to be necessary.
It was a demand from the Army prior to adoption. At that time, the army had been using op-rod rifles for awhile, and the old farts in Ordnance couldn’t conceive of not having a way to manually close the bolt.

Then, when it reached the field, it proved useful in a handful of situations, most of which have been covered in this thread. So there was no reason to get rid of it. It does no harm, really. To be fair, though, my drill sergeants (1994) didn’t know what to make of it either.
 

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Too much grease on the locking lugs (especially in winter), nasty ammo, carbon build up, weak buffer spring, etc. There are lots of reasons to have to bump the FA - or charging handle - on a field rifle. If you drag around behind tanks, everything gets filthy. I've seen M2's lock up. There are rifles that sleep in a gun safe, and rifles that sleep in your fart sack. I always felt a little easier with a FA on my fart sack rifles. To each, his own.
 

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Most civilians have that option. Kyle R did not. My training is to retract the op rod and if pistol the same with the slide.
I can see the forward assist being used proactively when loading a full 30 round mag to make sure that action completely closed. The forward assist does not work unless the action is just short of being closed.

Below this is what is taught by most civilian training schools.
.

I can see the forward assist being used proactively when loading a full 30 round mag to make sure that action completely closed. The forward assist does not work unless the action is just short of being closed.
Double feeds:
I run at least an H2 buffer in most of what I own so the bolt carrier group should have a little more wt behind it to facilitate feeding.


I like S.P.O.R.T.S: Slap on the magazine, Pull back on the charging handle, Observe the expended round, Release the charging handle, Tap the forward assist, Squeeze the trigger. Learned that back on the Malone Ranges in Fort Benning in 1983. Thirty years later and two Iraq deployments, (retired now) it still works for me. Pure muscle memory, don't even think about it, just my body's reaction to a weapon malfunction. (kinda like tying your shoes, you just do it) If have a malfunction its usually because I already made my assessment to shoot. As for not have a dust cover or a forward assist, that seems crazy to me but to each his own. Millions of us were trained the same way and once in combat in a dirty environment, it worked. Thank god.
 

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While I whole heartedly agree, the arm chair commandoes here seem to think otherwise and with their
decades of shooting paper targets convict the Forward Assist as a needless hemorrhoid.
Does armchair commando group also include stoner and the people of armalite since they did not included in the initial design?
After reading what various people have to say, the question is there a down side to having or using the forward assist.

The only downside I can see would be one of training. A light to light moderate tap should do not any harm. If the round is really not going in and applying great force could tie up the gun enough that an armorer will be required to clear it.
I would just as soon have the forward assist even if I would not use it. One will during an emergency tends to fight as they train.
For a malfunction:
On my pistols and semiauto rifles during a malfunction I seldom push the bolt or slide forward and always rack the action. My failure to use the forward assist when rifle happens to be an AR15 is one of training. As I switch to using the AR and sell off my other rifles, perhaps this will change. Many of the military 7.62 based on the AR 10 design are are said to lack the F assist.
New uppers are being made without provision for FAssist installation
Yesterday at a friend's house I helped him out with ordering his first AR assembled upper from Beer Creek. Of course I explained that the low pricing also implies less in quality. This on sale item was made without a forward assist or a dust cover. I showed him my complete upper and what it does. I explained that for defending his home in the middle of a smaller city, that this upper assuming we get it running would do the the job. He is not going out into woods or swamps or crawling through the mud. His concern would be a mob made up of our 'much less fortunate citizens' attacking his block and homestead. I also explained that the ATF was trying to regulate these parts so as to prevent future online purchases of such uppers.
 

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I read somewhere that part of the reason Stoner designed the BCG as he did, with that little indentation in the metal, is because he meant for the shooter to be able to stick a finger through the ejection port and just push the bolt the rest of the way home, if needed.

It works fine that way, if you try it.

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I read somewhere that part of the reason Stoner designed the BCG as he did, with that little indentation in the metal, is because he meant for the shooter to be able to stick a finger through the ejection port and just push the bolt the rest of the way home, if needed.

It works fine that way, if you try it.

View attachment 3903354
That is a very good observation. In that manner the push on the bolt will not be enough to irretrievably jammed a defective round into the gun, but enough to close and rotate the bolt if it there is a minor problem with chambering.
 

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I read somewhere that part of the reason Stoner designed the BCG as he did, with that little indentation in the metal, is because he meant for the shooter to be able to stick a finger through the ejection port and just push the bolt the rest of the way home, if needed.

It works fine that way, if you try it.

View attachment 3903354
Works sort of, but the cut is there to open the port cover when the bolt carrier is cycled open or closed.
 
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