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Silver Bullet member
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys,
Are there any laws prohibiting removal of part of the import billboards if the serial# is left untouched?
 

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Banned
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Nope, you can remove the whole thing if you so choose.
 

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Silver Bullet member
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Chas,
Why don't people remove the large part of them?
 

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Lazy? I think lots of people do "remove" (minimize) them.
 

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Careful, there may not be a Federal law, which I suspect if they wanted to they can make a case for removing that........but your state may have a law prohibiting removing it........so before you go and do something you might regret sitting next to your attorney, better check what your state law says.....ohio has a law against removing it,

(1) Change, alter, remove, or obliterate the name of the manufacturer, model, manufacturer's serial number, or other mark of identification on a firearm.

(2) Possess a firearm knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that the name of the manufacturer, model, manufacturer's serial number, or other mark of identification on the firearm has been changed, altered, removed, or obliterated.

and some state go so far as to say even owning one that has been removed, is a defacto proof that the owner did that, regardless if he bought it like that.

and depending on the state, it could be a misdemeanor, as in the case of ohio law for a first offense, 1st degree misdeamenor to be exact, to a 4th degree felony if he was already conivicted of or pleaded guilt for that offense ........some states call it a felony from the git go.

so it really isn't worth it, of course as always, your YMMV.
 

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As long as the ORIGINAL manufacturers serial numbers and other markings are left intact, the "import" markings can be removed.
Altering or destroying the original factory serial numbers or ID markings has always been a crime...
 

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I wouldn't risk it if I were you. With luck, 7.62x54r will weigh in on this, too. He's corrected me on occasion, and I have a great deal of respect for his opinions on firearms regulations.

Below is an excerpt from the law regarding marking imported firearms. I changed some of the text to red for emphasis. The intent seems clearly for all the required markings (unattractive as they are) to be permanent.

I'm also curious why you would want to remove all or part of the markings of commercially imported firearms? Someone might mistake it for a legitimate war trophy or bringback and pay more than it is worth in a future sale.

I'm sure you wouldn't want that to happen.
__________________________

Sec. 178.92 How must licensed manufacturers and licensed importers identify firearms, armor piercing ammunition, and large capacity ammunition feeding devices?

(a)(1) Firearms. You, as a licensed manufacturer or licensed
importer of firearms, must legibly identify each firearm manufactured or
imported as follows:
(i) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise
conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped
(impressed) or placed on the frame or receiver thereof an individual
serial number. The serial number must be placed in a manner not
susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must
not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm.
For
firearms manufactured or imported on and after January 30, 2002, the
engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of the serial number must
be to a minimum depth of .003 inch and in a print size no smaller than
\1/16\ inch; and
(ii) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise
conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped
(impressed) or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain
additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not
susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed. For
firearms manufactured or imported on and after January 30, 2002, the
engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be
to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:
(A) The model, if such designation has been made;
(B) The caliber or gauge;
(C) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when
applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer;
(D) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State
(or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer
maintain your place of business; and
(E) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in
which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized
abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of
business.
For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see
Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134.
 

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Mr. Flashy Pants
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7,377 Posts
I'm flattered by your confidence in me, but I've never really looked into this matter, although it comes up now and then, because I've never had an interest in removing import marks. I think I would err on the side of caution and leave them alone myself.

When I read the subject of the thread I was all set to post this link! :D

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinImport.htm

BTW, it's good to see you around the boards again. Having a woman around keeps the heathens from getting too far out of line. :eek::D
 

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Platinum Bullet member
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Why add to the injury already inflicted by the importer?? After all it is what it is. It would be a rare case where you actually made an improvement by filing or grinding! then re-bluing or re-painting to cover a importer mark.
 

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Some importers imprint a serial number that is different from the one already on the rifle. That then becomes the serial number of record so I am sure removing it is illegal. The two 91/30's that I got form Gander Mountain were stamped that way.
 

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Silver Bullet member
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
jimmy,
I would leave the serial untouched. The part I don't like is the huge 7.62x54r. That would go but not with a grinder or file. If you hand stone this, it would blend with the rest of the receiver very nicely.
 

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Administrator
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I wouldn't remove any of the import marking but I have toned them down a bit with a dab of cold blue on a Q-tip. For guns with a black painted finish, a black Magic Marker works well. I did this on a CZ82 and it turned out well.
 

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During my recent ATF audit I had a couple of rifles that I had toned down the import marking. Inspector said that was o.k., but it was not cool to remove any portion of the importer's markings, as the ATF requires those to be there. According to what I was told, the ATF could care less who the original manufacturer of imported firearms are, it's the importer that counts.
 

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jimmy,
I would leave the serial untouched. The part I don't like is the huge 7.62x54r. That would go but not with a grinder or file. If you hand stone this, it would blend with the rest of the receiver very nicely.
If you're in the US, the caliber should be clearly marked.
 

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I wouldn't remove it, but I would probably cold blue the dots to prevent rust. (Which also helps to not make the import mark so obvious)
 

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When you think about it, stoning them lightly or tapping them down lightly (thats what I've had to do with some CAI marks) doesn't alter the depths at all, your only removing the metal that was displaced by the engraving and was a lot higher then the original surface.
 

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The Feds have told me "the import mark has to stay!". Any firearm recovered by them in a crime would be traced STARTING at the importers record of sale. Many milsurps have been imported by quite a few companys. Trace trail starts at the importer, not the maker.

While a domestic firearm could be traced from Winchester to the first buyer.....it would be kind of tough to take a Steyr Built...Russian capture...Century import K98 from a crime scene and start the trace in Austria. Have to know it was a Century import!
 

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Gold Bullet Member
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885 Posts
Mosin Nagants often have a new serial number because the original number is not on the receiver (it's on the barrel). By US law, the receiver is the firearm and the rest is just parts.
 
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