I think I finally found one I want to keep...you tell me (with Pics)

2202 Views 17 Replies 11 Participants Last post by RP, May 10, 2010

RP

Discussion Starter · May 8, 2010

12

I've had several K98s over the years. I'm not a "K98 collector" nor have I gone deep in the literature or discussion boards to readily recognize variations, marking minutia, current pricing etc. I have just enough knowledge about these to be dangerous to my wallet. I remain vexed that I cannot find one to hold my loyalty for any meaningful duration. All I've had were eventually sold.

However, this example has my interest. I have a few days to look it over to decide if I want to keep it. It is all matching (Everything - including the stock underneath the wood). My only concerns are the polished appearance of the Waffenamts on the reciever and the serial stamp on the bottom of the stock behind the grip. On the first point, I'm not sure if Waffenamts we put on first and then the barrel blued and polished.The rest of the reciever markings are sharp and appear first strike. Nothing looks like a refinish at all. On the second point, I don't recall serials in this location from other examples and it appears the area was cleaned a bit. Not sure why. Can you tell me more. Like I said the serial under the wood matches. The bore is mint. I really want this one to be a winner. I paid less than a thousand and more than seven.

Appreciate any/all feedback.

Thanks,
RP

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1 - 18 of 18 Posts

mowzerluvr

· #2 · May 8, 2010

Hard to make a concrete decision. I will say the serial number in the wood on the comb of the stock appears to be restamped. The 9 looks to be stamped over top of a 6 and the rest of the numbers are way too deeply struck. Not indicative of German production I have seen. Also the "T" ? on the wrist of the stock appears to be a new stamping. The rest is a tough call. Maybe a closer photo of the top of the bolt root where the serial number is as it looks "not level". Also a photo of the serial numbers inside the barrel channel on the stock and handguard. How can it match if it was restamped ? The proofs in the metal look polished to me as if the metal was worked before a reblue but being colorblind I cannot tell if the blueing looks original or not. Aside from that its pretty tough to say from what I see in the photos.

mow.

Nabs

· #3 · May 9, 2010

That "Mod 98" stamp on the left receiver wall looks a little funny compared to my Kar98k.

If I were to hazard a guess, it seems the rifle and it's parts were reblued at one point but you have to admit, it looks nice.

The metal sure has been polished at one point just looking at the Weimar eagle proof beside the serial number on the left side of the receiver.

My understanding of WaA introduction is that you see them phased into production years in 1937 and being used to replace the Weimar style proofs used before from 1938 onwards.

I'll let the Kar98k experts pick this one apart.

WW2Gunnut

· #4 · May 9, 2010

Beautiful bluing job but looks like it was redone. The H on the stock and "Mod 98" does not look like what I usually have seen. This Pic is from my 1939 243. Im no expert as I am still learing from the experts here that can let you know.

Gun Revolver Shotgun Trigger Air gun

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Nabs

· #5 · May 9, 2010

Thats exactly how the "Mod 98' stamp looks on my 1940 J.P. Sauer & Son.

Bob in OHIO

· #6 · May 9, 2010

4

IM experience, Borsigwalde progressed oddly on stock cartouches from '37 to 1939.

Here's a few g-block 1937 pics for comparison. On the subject rifle, the wood serial isn't working for me and it does appear reblued...

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mauser202

· #7 · May 9, 2010

It could be the lighting, but like everyone else says I think its been polished and reblued. The serial # on the stock doesnt look legit imo.

RP

Discussion Starter · #8 · May 9, 2010

6

Hey Gents....thanks for all the feedback. I guess this is why I've stayed away from K98s, way too much funny business going on with them. But let's not give up hope too soon. Here are some more pics of markings. The stock has me guessing too, but check out the channel markings. Also, can you clarify on the Waffenamt stamps. Were they stamped before or after bluing? Could they have been stamped polished and then reciever blued. Except for the Waffenamts, there is nothing else that would lead you to believe for second it was reblued. Again, thanks for all the feedback...very helpful.

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doctorxring

· #9 · May 9, 2010 (Edited)

.

Looking at the re-blue and the serial stamped on the stock,
I'm thinking that this is a post-war Germany rebuild ??

und Ja ! it's a keeper in my book.

Nice pics too.

.

rcmauser

· #10 · May 9, 2010 (Edited)

IMO, the wear and tear on the stock does not match the condition of the metal finish. Maybe that is ok... but should be investigated. Thanks for posting the barrel channel stock pictures.

Looks like it has been polished and finished with a well done reblue...

I suggest investing in Bob in Ohio's k98 CD, if you have not got one. I find it very useful as a resource and use it often...

RP

Discussion Starter · #11 · May 9, 2010

So I've had this under a magnifying glass all morning. The wood is still a mystery to me as well. Though the channel serials match the reciever, but I'm with you on the exterior stock serial...a bit strange. As for the re-blue, I keep asking myself, if the condition of the metal was bad enough that they deemed it worthy of rebluing, I have to believe that all markings would show consistant original wear and tear and a buffed appearance so why don't the S/243, 1937 and serial number also have buffed/rounded edges like the Waffenamts. This is what prompts me to ask the question...did they put the Waffenamts on first before final (original) bluing and buffing. The metal is in great shape and shows typical but minimal highpoint wear so...wouldn't minor scratches and such show an over-blue. Nothing is deeply buffed that would indicate the receiver was in bad shape and no scratches show an overblue - they are on surface and show sub-metal. Again, looking at the metal condition and stampings, I keep asking why would it need to be reblued. Thanks for keeping the thread lively.

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SimsonSuhl

· #12 · May 9, 2010

As you did the BC, I will toss in a cent or two... though I am tempted to take a pass, as this isn't an easy one.

I think I agree with BiO, and others with the re-blue, - hard to tell in pictures but it looks like a really, really good job by someone who has some experience.

The stock is the hardest thing, as that is an early 1937 MB stock and the fonts are ok imo, but not sure I like that exterior shot much.

Looks like they over struck the serial (not uncommon) but the "P' looks over a suffix (and the "P" or "K" sometimes found in these areas are usually higher over the serial, near the pistol grip, and most often on laminates- though the "k" can be found on solids). Plus what is up with the "T"?

All in all, I would pass on this rifle unless it is really cheap, even though I am impressed by the ability of the person who did this work, as truly it is hard to say for sure.

Imo only and I could be wrong.. but I would not buy this rifle if it was to be my one representative rifle.

RP said:
Thanks for keeping the thread lively.

Gewehr455

· #13 · May 9, 2010

Just a couple of observations. Your stock has a HZa stamp near the pistol grip. This usually indicates some level of rework or parts replacement. Your rear band should also be the early type with a thin rounded sling loop. My a block S/243 rifle is this type and I would expect yours to be the same. Without checking my notes the squared sling loop comes later in the 37 dated production run. The HZa marking could explain this and possibly the issues with the stock exterior, possibly even the blue, but with the assumption the stock is original to the rifle. The blue is unusually strong, but very right in appearance. I lean towards it being good, but a hands on is needed to make that call with any certainty.

Jim

SimsonSuhl

· #14 · May 9, 2010

Very good observation Jim! Some how I didn't notice that mark on the edge of the pistolgrip!

Perhaps RP can do a close up of the acceptance?

Gewehr455 said:
Just a couple of observations. Your stock has a HZa stamp near the pistol grip. This usually indicates some level of rework or parts replacement. Your rear band should also be the early type with a thin rounded sling loop. My a block S/243 rifle is this type and I would expect yours to be the same. Without checking my notes the squared sling loop comes later in the 37 dated production run. The HZa marking could explain this and possibly the issues with the stock exterior, possibly even the blue, but with the assumption the stock is original to the rifle. The blue is unusually strong, but very right in appearance. I lean towards it being good, but a hands on is needed to make that call with any certainty.

Jim

RP

Discussion Starter · #15 · May 9, 2010

Gents...this is great, my sincere thanks for you guidance and education...hope it helps someone else out there as well. I have attached the best close-up of the pistol grip stamps that I could get. I am assuming the HZa mark you mean is the one most rearward. I can sort of make out an H and a Z, but that's it. As for the blue in my first set of pictures, the "strong blue" could be my lighting and general photgraphy. The finish is more like that in the second set of pics, a deep blue/black.

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SimsonSuhl

· #16 · May 9, 2010

That is the mark, and Jim is right that an HZa stamp could explain your stock. The re-blue issue may very well be your images, but it sure is looking re-blue to me.

The HZa marking should be "HZa - two letters (usually) and one or two numbers (usually)" Might it look like "Jt"? Ingolstadt is one of the more active depots on reworks.

hansellhd2

· #17 · May 9, 2010

This is why I mainly stick with RC's too many questions, however it is a good looking Rifle.
HD2.

RP

Discussion Starter · #18 · May 10, 2010 (Edited)

Stantheman86 posted a very insightful observation on another thread, one that may not be novel for some but for me a revelation (http://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...-must-really-not-be-letting-any-quot-go-quot-! ). He has convinced me to keep this example even though I had some questions and reservations. I still do, but as I've come to painfully realize, "who knows" when it comes to K98s and one of the reasons I've kept away from them. I'm keeping this one...even with its few mysteries. Maybe in the end that's better. It is what it is, and I don't have to defend it, it's interesting because of the unknown and the debate it provokes. I can go another 10 years before I find another that sparks my interest, and if I do it's likely I'll still have some questions or concerns about the myriad of variations and variables once I see it up close. That said, keep the discussion going for those who really want to go deeper into the issues and observations. I'm sure it will prove helpful for many.
Thanks again...RP

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