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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I posted this over at the CMP forum, so here it goes here:

Folks, I just got done doing a quick look-see over what might be a British Lend/lease rifle. Here are the "qualifiers" I see so far, please correct me or weigh in on this as I NEED help. I am not a Garand expert by any means..:

Proper SA GHS and cross cannon stock cartouche, along with circle-P on wrist
Proper serial number placing it as a November of 41 made
Remnants (about 75%) of the red paint on the front forearm
Proper front sight with protective plug over adjusting screw
Proper SA 11-41 on barrel
Proper British BNP and more brit proofs on barrel

Sound good to you?

The guy from whom this was purchased from has had it since the 1960's, which is another plus. He is checking on paperwork, as he may have something to authenticate it. Along with this Garand was a couple nice early carbines (with DCM paperwork) and a first year production (1945) Colt Sistema. He also had a bunch of bayonets, ammo, etc... The guy was just clearing it out "for someone else to enjoy", as he put it.

Any advice would be cherished.
Thanks,
dave
 

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So far, so good. You need to look at all the parts - bolt, op rod, rear sight, etc. and make sure they match.

The BNP is a British export mark and is not a sign of L/L usage.

Can I ask how much you're paying? I hope a LOT - if you're getting it for a steal price I may slash my wrists! A L/L M1 has been on my "want" list for a considerable time!
 

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Please post the data from the trigger group, bolt and op rod. Two of my LL M1s are of that vintage, via Scott Duff.

I had 4 LL M1s, but sold one to finance an AI AWP that was at a must buy price.

It is all still out there.
 

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I have on in the same barrel date range, 463,xxx that is also a lend-lease return. These are worth a pretty penny (upwards of $2-3K) at this point if all correct.
 

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Hey Rick...been flying under the radar :)

I transferred to another office in my agency, and have a few major projects that have occupied all my time.

The last few LL that Scott Duff had for sale were around $3600-3700. Scott had an absolute perfect one a few years ago that sold for $4300... and I mean absolutely perfect.

One word of caution on the LL M1s... if they are truly original, they most likely still have their solid round firing pins. The two I received from Scott (Oct and Nov 41) still had them. Since they were not in the US Supply system, they didn't receive any of the later upgraded parts. I have no intention of ever shooting them, but if I did, I would replace the firing pin with the late model half round pin. The solid round pin can break, and there is a great photo array in Billy Pyle's The Gas Trap Garand on pages 126-127 of some fellow that destroyed a mint 100% original gas trap by shooting it with a solid round firing pin that failed. The rifle fired out of battery.
 

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The BNP is a British export mark and is not a sign of L/L usage.
The BNP marking is one of the British proof marks applied, by the Birmingham Proof House, to all arms in the commercial trade in the United Kingdom, and would have been applied to the Lend Lease M1 rifles, and other firearms, released from military inventory. I believe Sam Cummings, of Interarms, purchased most, if not all, of Britain's Lend Lease small arms. Cummings used a warehouse in Manchester, England for inspection, refurbishing and storage, until the weapons could be exported. Unfortunately, Cummings was buying vast quantities of M1 rifles, and other small arms, throughout the world, and shipping them to the Manchester warehouse for processing. Even though these arms were going to be exported, they were in Britain's commercial trade and required proofing. So identifying Lend Lease weapons becomes difficult to the novice who doesn't know the correct serial number range of a M1 rifle, or other firearm with British proof marks, that would be correct to have been Lend Lease. Garands manufactured in the 1950s will be found with British proof marks. One of the Birmingham proof marks is the "private view mark" which consists of two "crossed lances" with a letter on either side and a number beneath. The number is the inspector but the two letters is a code for the year the firearm was proofed. An M1 rifle in the correct Lend Lease serial number range with British proof marks applied in the 1980s or 90s, as an example, is unlikely to have been part of the Lend Lease program. If you post the two letters, you will be advised of the year your M1 rifle was proofed.
 

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As stated, any rifle even passing through Britian had to be proofed/reproofed. The exception as I understand were guns that were sealed on the ships or docks for a temporary period. I forget the term/name used for that storage. The term "Bonded" popped in my little mind? Ray
 

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In bond.
Ray: did Jim Tee*** pass away?
Here are some photos of an Lend lease that I purchased many years ago.

Note the faint BNP stamps on the receiver ring and right bolt lug. it has the round firing pin too,
which I have fired maybe a few thousand rounds over the years. Keep in mind there wasn't any
information at the time stating the round firing pin could result in something dangerous. Both the
large and small ordnance stamp are also found
 

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I've been offered 5 Lend-Leases over the last 3-4 years. Everyone had been altered in some way by a previous owner. Most had dark barrels. One was made into a competition rifle! Two had sanded stocks where they had not removed the metal first. One was blued. I think most of them were owned by VFW members and used for parades and funerals.

I did buy one - the best of the lot. But a previous owner had sanded out several scratches from the stock. Bore not the greatest. But metal near 100%. A VERY LATE LL as it has the original rare Type I lock Bar.

I would love to find an unmolested original example. Not sure how many still exist? $3000 would be theft for such a rifle!
 
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