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My first HVA 1900 series... is now scoped. Pics.
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Topic URL: http://old.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=214511
Printed on: 09/10/2007
Topic:
Topic author: foudufoot
Subject: My first HVA 1900 series... is now scoped. Pics.
Posted on: 03/04/2007 10:29:06 PM
Message:

JP is right. Going on Allan's web site is like letting a kid loose in the candy store.
He had two 1970s up for a couple of days. Yesterday, the first one in 6.5 Swedish was sold but a very nice one in .243 Win was still there. Not a caliber I am familiar with, but after a little research and reading the 1900 testimonials on this site, I decided to buy it.

It's an HVA Serial #12625. I guess one of the early ones before HVA sold out to FFV. Enough said, here are some pics from Allan's web site:

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From the pictures in Jaktvapen and my very loose translation (WAG) of the swedish text, this seems to be a standard model. Please correct me if I'm wrong!
Dan
Replies:
Reply author: sbhva
Replied on: 03/05/2007 08:49:52 AM
Message:

Oh no, I meant to post about this gun! It is a current Italian copy of the 1900 sold under the Husqvarna name in Sweden. It really isn't Swedish at all.

Husqvarna made 1900's are only in the serial number range from 350,000 to about 381,000 when FFV bought the gun works. FFV/Carl Gustaf guns are in the range from 381,000 to about 652,000. No they didn't produce that many guns, they jumped the lead digit from 3 to 5 and then to 6. In total FFV/CG made about 60,000 1900's.
Reply author: allanschisel
Replied on: 03/05/2007 10:43:11 AM
Message:

I wondered why the serial number was so "odd." Is the jeweled bolt body an after market addition, or did all the Italian Husqvarnas come like that from the factory?
Allan Schisel
Reply author: foudufoot
Replied on: 03/05/2007 7:47:49 PM
Message:

quote:Originally posted by sbhva

Oh no, I meant to post about this gun! It is a current Italian copy of the 1900 sold under the Husqvarna name in Sweden. It really isn't Swedish at all.

Husqvarna made 1900's are only in the serial number range from 350,000 to about 381,000 when FFV bought the gun works. FFV/Carl Gustaf guns are in the range from 381,000 to about 652,000. No they didn't produce that many guns, they jumped the lead digit from 3 to 5 and then to 6. In total FFV/CG made about 60,000 1900's.


That would explain why it's in such great shape! Do you know who manufactures and distributes them? I have been unable to find any information on them on the internet.
Reply author: sbhva
Replied on: 03/05/2007 10:07:18 PM
Message:

I believe the maker is Antonio Zoli. I think they have also been sold under the Carl Gustaf name too. To find info, you are probably going to have to look on Swedish gun dealer sites. Try googling "husqvarna nya vapen". Nya means new and Beg means used.
Reply author: capnduane
Replied on: 03/05/2007 11:05:12 PM
Message:

Thatsa soma spicey Husqvarna!
Reply author: allanschisel
Replied on: 03/06/2007 10:13:34 AM
Message:

I've been doing some research and looking over the rifle. I found some proof marks on the barrel that Sweden did not require by law, but Italy does. I guess this rifle was made in Italy, but on Husqvara machinery that was sold to Italy. I thought Italian made 1900s were stamped Antonio Zoli (some were) and not "SWEDEN" like this one is. The more I branch out into other firearms, the more I learn. In any case, this rifle is really nice.
Allan Schisel
Reply author: foudufoot
Replied on: 03/06/2007 11:55:45 AM
Message:

Steve,

Here's a Swedish article that seems relevant. Can you make sense of it?

http://www.jaktjournalen.se/index.php?avd1=2

Thanks, Dan
Reply author: sbhva
Replied on: 03/06/2007 1:25:43 PM
Message:

My Swedish isn't that good, but it sounds like they are discussing the CG 2000 which is a different action, although there seems to be some confusion on various Swedish websites about just what a CG 2000 is.
Reply author: foudufoot
Replied on: 03/06/2007 1:48:37 PM
Message:

quote:Originally posted by allanschisel

I thought Italian made 1900s were stamped Antonio Zoli (some were) and not "SWEDEN" like this one is. Allan Schisel


Allan, I think you are right about the stamps. Zoli does manufacture AZ1900 rifles modeled after the HVA 1970. See for example.

http://safarifirearms.com.au/Rifles-Zoli.htm#zoli-1900

However, the receiver markings and stock wood and forend do not seem to be the same as for this one. I still have doubts that it is a Zoli. There is a forum thread that appears to ask this very question but I need one of our Swedish friends to translate for us:


http://www.nogger.net/~robban/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=15528
Reply author: allanschisel
Replied on: 03/06/2007 2:02:56 PM
Message:

I spoke with Ken Buch and he has a 1900 "Husqvarna" that is stamped Zoli. He leaves in Sweden to go hunting with on his trips. Off the top of his head, he said he's really not sure, but because of the proof stamps on the barrel, the rifle in question may very well be Italian made. 1967 to 1970 seem to be some very confusing years concerning Husqvarna/Carl Gustaf/Zoli rifles.
Allan Schisel
Reply author: foudufoot
Replied on: 03/06/2007 2:27:36 PM
Message:

Well, it might be Zoli after all. Here's one listed on Widforss' auction house in Sweden. Same caliber, stock shape, serial number 11,597.

KULGEVÄR , Italienskt, fabrikat: Husqvarna/Zoli, repeter, modell 1900-kopia, kal. .243W, tillvnr. 11597, piplängd 60 cm, ställbart sikte, plundringsbart magasin, Monte Carlo kolv med kindstöd, pistolgrepp och bakelitbakkappa, rembyglar, toppmonterad Shirstone 3-10x, NYSKICK Vapenlicens krävs.
Utropspris 3000-4000 SEK Såld för 3800 SEK

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Reply author: sbhva
Replied on: 03/06/2007 4:12:07 PM
Message:

Allan;

Not really confusing at all. The serial number tells the tale as the serial numbers used by Husqvarna and FFV/Carl Gustaf for 1900 action rifles they produced are well defined. I think you are confusing the Swedish model name "1970" for the year of production. Zoli didn't start making the 1900 copies until at least one (and there may be a second) other company (Viking) tried and failed to make a go of it after FFV stopped production. I think the Zoli's would have started in the early 1990's? I am not surprised that the Zoli name isn't on the gun since they (and I'm not sure who they are) were/are trying to sell these guns under the Husqvarna name. I have "Husqvarna" catalogs for these guns that do not mention the Zoli name or made in Italy. It is my understanding that a good number of Swedish gun enthusiasts were really upset about this practice.

There is a nasty rumor about these guns that has been circulating for 10 to 15 years now. I won't repeat it because I have never found any first hand evidence or stories to back up the rumor. So if you hear it (you will know it when you hear it), take it with a large grain of salt.

It is also my understanding the the ultra-fancy VO Vapen guns are built on these actions. I think it would be great to compare one of these copies with a "real" 1900 to see if the Zoli guns could be a source of spare parts like bolts, trigger guards, etc.
Reply author: kriggevaer
Replied on: 03/06/2007 4:20:05 PM
Message:

The CG 2000 and CG 3000 rifles were built on Sauer 80 and 90 actions, but I'm not sure of the years of production.
Reply author: allanschisel
Replied on: 03/06/2007 4:47:00 PM
Message:

Well, I'm less confused now than I was before. Yesterday, I shipped the other 1900 I had or I could compare the parts of the low serial number "Husqvara" with the high serial number "Carl Gustaf." They sure looked the same.
Is there any evidence that Husqvarna sold their machinery to Zoli or anyone else?
Any reports of the quality of the Italian made "1900s" compared to the Swedish 1900s?
I'll add the Italian connection to all low numbered "1900s" from now on.
Allan Schisel

Well, maybe some European rifle makers don't mind upsetting their customers, but I believe in truth in advertising. I've changed the description of the "1900" posted on my website. Is this description on the mark? If not, what could I add or get rid of to state only what we really know to be true?

150711SC
"Swedish Husqvarna 1900 Series Rifle." Serial # 12625. {.243 Win}. Stamped "HUSQVARNA-SWEDEN" on left side of receiver. This rifle was manufactured in Italy by Zoli under license by Husqvarna.

Reply author: daniel phillips
Replied on: 03/06/2007 5:06:15 PM
Message:

well i own many carl gustafs. and have a friend who owned a zoli / the compairable gustav jeweld bolt, different shinny finish, better checkering, larger, palm swell, and the zoli was marked so and forearmed tiped. never saw a carl gustav sold under zoli, or a husky/zoli like the one pictured. i went to foudufoots sight, the zoli i handeled didnt look like thoses eather, my friends new in the box, looked like a jeweld bolt 1900-"model 8000", i have a model sauer action saure 80 gustav 3000, same as the saure 90 plainer 2000, different actions completly. But like every good deal, most likely pre production varities,using up parts,used up ideas, gremlins, had something to do with the picture.and if a gun is assembled with swede parts or not i think italian proof laws would require, for both export/ or use at home, testing. read proof marks of the world. zoli bought the rights and i dont think gustav made anymore after the deal. there must have been early marked leftover husky 1900 actions also in the warehouse. im willing to learn more. dan phillips.
Reply author: foudufoot
Replied on: 03/06/2007 6:00:28 PM
Message:

I just received confirmation from Safari Arms in Australia that this is indeed an AZ 1900 standard model, which they distribute. Zoli purchased the rights from Husqvarna and has been building them per Swedish specs. The review in JAKT Journalen seems very complimentary and appears to indicate that the Zoli is a very close, if not exact, copy of the original HVA 1970 design.

I also got a response on the Italian board that reads:

Zoli in Italy bought the right from Husqvarna to make the model 1900 that where sold both under Zoli name and under Husqvarna as the latter kept the right to buy rifles from Zoli to be sold under its name. The proof mark and the 'CAT.' (should be followed by a 4 or 5 digits number) are definitively Italian markings.
Gianluca

This would explain why the receiver reads Husqvarna - Sweden and not Zoli. My conclusion from all this is that this is an HVA 1970 model toll produced by Zoli in Italy after HVA sold them the rights to manufacture. As Capnduane might say it's a spicy Swedalian rifle.
Good enough for me.

I realize this is not a pure bred Swede as it has some of that hot Italian blood running through its veins, put it is a descendent of the royal lineage, re-adopted by Husqvarna after it's Mediterranean fling. As Inspector Clouseau would say, "ze meestery is solvehd".

I hope to get confirmation from Signor Zoli himself. I'll let you know what I find and how she shoots, unless it is considered OT by the moderators.

Thank you all for your help!!


PS: Just heard from our friend Mats Persson who confirmed Steve's hint that the early Italian models were reported to be of poor quality, until Antonio Zoli took over production. After that, the Italian 1900s were said to be as good as the HVAs.

Reply author: allanschisel
Replied on: 03/06/2007 6:13:21 PM
Message:

On the left rear side of the receiver, it's stamped "CAT 4504." There are two small stamps on either side of this that look like small crests.
Allan Schisel
Reply author: sbhva
Replied on: 03/06/2007 7:04:14 PM
Message:

quote:Originally posted by kriggevaer

The CG 2000 and CG 3000 rifles were built on Sauer 80 and 90 actions, but I'm not sure of the years of production.


The CG 3000 is a Sauer 80, the CG 4000 is a Sauer 90, and the CG 2000 (as sold in the US) is sort of a cross between the Sauer 90 and the 1900.
Reply author: daniel phillips
Replied on: 03/06/2007 8:21:56 PM
Message:

question me this.
if husq. sold the rights to viking / and carl g. could use the husq name for a short while to get established. ive got that in writing somewhere? the next step would be viking/ffv then carl g. selling the rights to zoli,then how did zoli have a later deal to use husq.trade mark when gustaf had displaced husq rights through ownership earlier? when they took over all new manuf. ill have look up the history that i have in the old stuff,because, from my memory
a considerable time had elapsed before people could get parts for 1900 actions( and gustaf had started the new line of sauer 80 actions and had even stopped this for a while before zoli got into the picture)most considered themselves lucky that zoli had started production for parts sake
.i consider the 1900 action rifles to be one of the best blueprinted lock ups, unique in design,smoother than hva or 98s, the most accurate guns that husq ever or anyone else had designed in standard production.
a lot better then the over complicated sauer 80 with its short comings,ive had voeres,klingunthers, all kinds of 98s,win.,rem.,parkerhales,bsa and i always came back to my swedes of pure breed accuracy.
this is range experence with targets, levels,commercial, reloads, lbs of powder,sweet target and hunting loads. ive never had any husky of any action design from the 50s up that wouldnt shoot with excellence
, but thoes 1900s are exceptional
-----sorry was that as good for you?
as it was for me?
ooooorah. daniel phillips
Reply author: daniel phillips
Replied on: 03/06/2007 8:32:36 PM
Message:

steve what is vo vapen gun? is it a zoli, or carl g, husky? has any one held a viking? daniel phillips
Reply author: MPE
Replied on: 03/06/2007 10:13:47 PM
Message:

Daniel,

Check this link: http://www.vovapen.com/envo.htm They sure are some nice looking rifles. Anyone ever handled one?

Take care,

Mike
><>
Reply author: sbhva
Replied on: 03/06/2007 10:25:43 PM
Message:

quote:Originally posted by daniel phillips

steve what is vo vapen gun? is it a zoli, or carl g, husky? has any one held a viking? daniel phillips


I saw somewhere VO Vapen stated they use "modern 1900 actions" to build their custom guns on, so I am assuming they are Zoli's.
Reply author: foudufoot
Replied on: 03/06/2007 11:02:03 PM
Message:

You guys aren't hijacking my thread, are you?
Reply author: daniel phillips
Replied on: 03/07/2007 05:35:05 AM
Message:

not hijacking, i wasnt sure of production, but thanks mpe, good pics. sent a question to them to see if they were zolis. sorry foudufoot, didnt mean to step on your "Action" italian that is. daniel phillips
Reply author: arilar
Replied on: 03/07/2007 08:52:59 AM
Message:

quote:Originally posted by sbhva

My Swedish isn't that good, but it sounds like they are discussing the CG 2000 which is a different action, although there seems to be some confusion on various Swedish websites about just what a CG 2000 is.

I am confused!! Yesterday I red this thread and observed Foudufoots link to a ¨swedish discussion on different CG models. Made a short translation but today the link is to another site! An article from jakt-Journalen that is impressed with the Zoli 1900 rifle. Later in this thread its a link to a discussion on another swedish forum and there some criticism around finish in blueing and poor fit between wood and metal.
In the first linked discussion the translation is this:
"Anybody knows the difference between CG 1900, 2000 and 3000?"
"Answers: Cg 1900 comes from Husqvarna because FFV bought the weapon-department 1970 and kept on producing 1900 until 1979. Then they (FFV) started to import weapon, CG 3000.
CG 2000 was manufactured a while in Italy but because of to low quality production moved to Eskilstuna were Winscan produced them with the name CG MkII. Its now Classic Weapon that sells them"

That is about all that was to be translated from that discussion. I dont know what is correct myself. Just remember that when I wanted a moose-rifle cal.30-06 back in 1980 I looked at CG 3000. When I was informed it was a copy of Sauer 80 I bought that one instead (the original stuff). Has served me well with a Weaver-scope. Here is a pic of that one.



Regards,
ARILAR
Reply author: daniel phillips
Replied on: 03/07/2007 7:41:41 PM
Message:

i bought a model 3000 its new, no italian proofs, marked sweden,and it has sauer action,that i thought was from germany,and was put together in sweden? ,like so many other companys at that time building guns under their own names colt, browning etc,using thoes actions,( like also 98 actions of early husq. made in belgiun). and in thoes days there wasnt any mention of italy. not on the box or gun. and mine has excellent blue and fit, wood is plain. this 306 ive never shot. i have carl gustavf new rings too. ill get it out and look again to see if i missed any thing later. never saw a 2000. other than books. daniel phillips
Reply author: foudufoot
Replied on: 03/09/2007 9:22:29 PM
Message:

Gorgeous rifle Arilar! I love that full stock look.
Reply author: foudufoot
Replied on: 03/10/2007 1:30:23 PM
Message:

quote:Originally posted by daniel phillips

not hijacking, i wasnt sure of production, but thanks mpe, good pics. sent a question to them to see if they were zolis. sorry foudufoot, didnt mean to step on your "Action" italian that is. daniel phillips


Just some late night bustin', Dan. Nice retort..
Reply author: daniel phillips
Replied on: 03/11/2007 7:44:43 PM
Message:

i was going to check with my best friend, whom owned the 1900 zoli on his birthday friday, but im sad to report that my friend, a great guntrader james hall, had died on his birthday after a long illness. and is with god. so keep me and his family up in you thoughts dan phillips
Reply author: foudufoot
Replied on: 03/12/2007 8:02:24 PM
Message:

I'm very sorry to hear than Dan. You have our deepest sympathy. Dan
Reply author: sbhva
Replied on: 03/12/2007 11:05:43 PM
Message:

quote:Originally posted by daniel phillips

i was going to check with my best friend, whom owned the 1900 zoli on his birthday friday, but im sad to report that my friend, a great guntrader james hall, had died on his birthday after a long illness. and is with god. so keep me and his family up in you thoughts dan phillips


Jim Hall from WV? I did some business with him in my early days of collecting and still have on of the guns I got from him. I am so sorry to hear of his passing. My sympathies to Jim's family.
Reply author: daniel phillips
Replied on: 03/13/2007 1:06:45 PM
Message:

thanks foudfoot, steve, guys, its been hard, i told him of this net site, he was excited but--- <>< never got to see it he was spending his days showing his love to his wife, making peace with the lord and making arrangements so to not to burden her , he was that kind of husband. it would have made him smile to know , steve he had sold you a gun? that was inportant enough to have kept this long thanks again. dan phillips
Reply author: foudufoot
Replied on: 03/26/2007 8:49:43 PM
Message:

Well, here she is with 6x18 VX II Leupold scope. Thanks to Kriggevear for setting me straight on the scope mount! I got .243 win ammo so I'm pretty sure what I'm doing next weekend..


Whaddya think?

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Reply author: Pettson
Replied on: 04/12/2007 08:29:09 AM
Message:

Since there is obviously some cunfusion regarding the HVA/CG 1900 rifles in general, and especially on the italian connection, I was wanting to do an abridged version of it's history here.
But right now it turns out that I'm not on friendly footing with my scanner (I need to scan some ads and stuff).

Will dive into the dark side of Bill Gates version of hell now, hopefully I'll be back later this evening (I'm on GMT +1 here).
If you don't hear from me again, call my lawyers!

Pettson
Reply author: Pettson
Replied on: 04/13/2007 08:52:26 AM
Message:

I hate this! Any win doctors around here? What this bloody "Generic Host for win32 whatsitsface?
Aaaarghhh!

Pettson
Reply author: Pettson
Replied on: 04/24/2007 6:37:27 PM
Message:

OK, with some aid from Baribal (thanks!) I got most of the issues sorted out, and both the scaner and printer are running again. Might this be the GATES of heaven that I'm seeing?
Sorry 'bout that, poor taste... I like Monty Python also...

Since there seems to be some confusion regarding the original 1900 rifles and it's various clones, I thought I'd have a go at straightening things out a bit (gulp!), and give at least a basic timeline for the various evens.
Now, I'm far from an expert in this field, so I can't give many specific details or exact dates, only a general overview.

Comments, criticism and questions are welcome.

PUBLIC HEALTH WARNING!
This might be a lengthy post, and could hurt your eyes. Read on at your own discretion.

As I'm sure you all know, the development of the 1900 rifle by Husqvarna was basically a cost cutting measure. The Mauser styled 1640 had become to expensive to produce, and the leadership at HVA was threatening the existence of rifle production there. So the 1900 was developed both quietly and secretly without any special budget set aside for it. The board at HVA wasn't really imformed about it until it was practically finished.

In 1967, 200 rifles were sent out to selected hunters and shooters, who in turn had to get back with detailed reports and feedback on how the new rifle was working. All turned out well, and in 1968 with the nod from the board, production started proper.
This was aided by the fact that HVA had managed to aquire the military contract for producing the G3 for the Army, as the Swedish AK4. This contract produced enough funds for them to allow investment in new tooling and machinery, and even a brand new indoor range. Until then, all test firing had been done on an outdoor range along the Huskvarna river, just downstream from the factory proper. Plenty of stories of stray bullets hitting the factory grounds here, especially from the war years and the m/37-39 production, but thats another post...


Sooo, production went well, the 1900 was widely accepted and adopted by the public. Until 1969 when the big one dropped; The gun division was being sold to government owned CG/FFV! This might at first glance seem strange, since the firearms production was now turning out profitable.
But three things might have been imoprtant here;
FFV/CG had for a while been showing an interest in wanting to get into the civilian market.
They also dearly wanted that military contract. It must have hurt some pride at FFV that a civillian company on thier own accord managed to land a military contract.
Finally, the gun making part of the huge Husqvarna enterprise was now only a diminutive bit for the company that was now making most of it's profits on refrigerators, lawnmowers and chainsaws. And according to a stubborn rumour, FFV paid a silly price for it, all out of the taxpayer's money of course.
The deal went through and this effectively terminated a tradition that's been going on since 1689...
Interestingly enough, 20 years later the same reasoning would also end the other diminutive production line at HVA, when motorcycle production was sold out to Cagiva of Italy.

OK, I can see this is getting out of hand, this was supposed to be a 1900 walkthrough. Let me get back on track here...

During late 1969/early 1970 the deal was closed and production of the 1900 was transferred to Eskilstuna, along with the manufacturing line for the AK4 of course. FFV wasn't interested in the shotguns, so HVA kept a small shop that continued doing repairs and restorations, along with a couple of small runs of fairly expensive guns from remaining parts.

For a while, HVA helped out with the startup in Eskilstuna, first producing assembled units and then delivering certain parts.
It might be of passing interest to note here that the last 1900 action to be fully assembled at HVA was #378607.
Further, see Steve's post above on serial numbers.
Eventually, production was fully transferred to CG.
Stockmaking was located to a company in northern Sweden, by people that had instant classes at Husqvarna, but no other previous experience in big time rifle stock production. In the beginning this and other quality control problems gave a lot of problems. In the end, CG managed to produce a good rifle. What they did not manage to do, however, was to get the production cost effective.
They were in fact, during the whole production perid, losing money for every rifle sold. Consultants were engaged, leading to even more costs for CG.
Even though being socialist government owned, this could not go on forever. Before the disicion was made to shut down the manufacturing of the 1900, there were many discussions on moving production abroad, and a number of foreign gun manufacturers were even included in these talks.
But it all ended in the termination of 1900 production, and the introduction of the German made CG3000 and 4000 rifles.

Now's the time to mention markings. Together with the serial numbers mentioned elsewhere, this is the quick and dirty way to separate the originals from the copies.

The original from HVA is marked Husqvarna Vapenfabriks AB Sweden.
The early CG rifles often containing some HVA parts are marked FFV Husqvarna Sweden.
Later this was changed to HVA FFV Sweden.
Late production CG 1900's are marked Carl Gustav Sweden.

Here's the early type CG marking;

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Production ended late 1978 or early 1979.
And now the fun bit begins.

Are y'all still awake? Go get some coffee, I'll stop typing for a while...

About 1983, two Swedish companies announced that they intended to start production of 1900 copies, made in Italy. The two companies were Viking Arms, with the Viking 1990, and Geson, with the SG19C.
The Viking project was initiated by two gun dealers, one of them being Viggo Olsson, now of VO Vapen fame.
The Viking was produced and assembled by Franchi.

Geson on the other hand, was to italian trained gun engraver Stanley Stoltz hooked up with Tonneloni, who was to to make the stock and action for the SC19C. The barrels came from Delcour of Belgium, and final assembly was done in Sweden.

Interestingly enough, Antonio Zoli was a big sub-contractor for both of these Italian companies... If you have held the Viking and the Geson rifles in your hands at the same time, you'd notice some exceptional detail similarities in the two. I do strongly suspect, but can't back it up with facts, that Zoli actually made the actions for both these rifles. Future development would suggest that I'm right.

The Viking was a fairly exact copy of the CG1900, having a similar stock and barrel profile as the former. This rifle also incorporated a new feature also seen on later and today's Zoli rifles; A bolt release button forward of the safety that allows the bolt to be cycled with the safety on.

The SC19C had a slightly different stock and barrel profile.
Both of these rifles were recived favourably by the press, but in the end both attempts turned out unsuccessful. Problems with keeping up the deliveries might have been the main problem.
The were first advertised in early 1984, but didn't actually hit the market until 1985, about the same time as the then new "all Swedish" CG2000 was starting to make a rumble.
So in the end both projects were scrapped. If you can find one, either seems to be a decent rifle.

Two ads for these rifles. One looks a bit strange, because it was spread over two pages and I didn't feel like tearing the magazine apart just to give you people a decent scan. You'll get the idea anyway I'm sure...

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Now starts the Zoli era proper. I have no idea as to the correct timeline, so take this for what it's worth.

Firstly, while HVA was still in business, a Zoli made 1900 copy was introduced. Apart from the small shop kept for maintaining the HVA guns, they also were distributors for several brands of firearms and accessories. This happed about 1988 or so. This rifle was Husqvarna-marked.

Meanwhile, other firearms had been introduced and marketed as Husqvarnas as well. Among other things, a Franchi made semiauto shotgun, and later the equally italian O/U 300 series of shotguns.
After HVA shut down for good in 1989 (at the 300 year anniversary!), Winchester distributor (among other things) Winscan aquired the rights to use the HVA name, and production of the "HVA 1900" continued. These early Zolis have a mixed reputation, like all older Zolis. Glowing reports are mixed with those from peolpe who wouldn't want to use one of these guns as a tomato stick... Italian style quality control was the main culprit I believe. Unfortunately Antonio Zoli has a hard time getting rid of this shadow, for in my opinion they have really shaped up their act over the last couple of years.

During the late nineties Classic Vapen aquired the rights for both HVA and CG, and started having all kind of weapons produced under these names. Zoli also started manufacturing 1900 clones under their own name, and this is about where we stand today.
We have the Heckel & Koch and the Merkel CG's, the occasional HVA 1900 , and the Zoli 1900.
While the early style Zolis were fairly true in shape to the original, latter versions are, unfortunately distinctly Bavarian in style. Something only a mother could love... Apart from the bolt release mentioned, they also improved the fastening of the trigger housing to the action.
The Zoli of today is, in my very very humble opinion, a good rifle, but it fails to fill my heart with national pride...

Current Bavarian stock styling of Zoli AZ1900 (yikes!);

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Allegedly VO Vapen get their 1900 actions from Zoli also, in the white and unhardened.

Here is yours truly blasting away with the new Zoli in 9,3x62, and a close up of the "lux" version, showing the bolt release button;

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You will notice that I have almost completely managed to avoid mentioning the CG2000 here. That was deiberate, since that model alone would probably generate an equally lengthy post. Let's see if this one stirs any interest first!

Pettson
Reply author: foudufoot
Replied on: 04/24/2007 9:50:48 PM
Message:

Thanks for this "abridged" version, Pettson!
It was well worth the wait!! Thanks for taking the time to research this and share it with us.
I'm exhausted from the reading though, so I'll have to finish my thoughts tomorrow, after I get some rest...
Reply author: sbhva
Replied on: 04/25/2007 09:30:51 AM
Message:

Thanks Pettson for advancing our knowledge in the field of Italian 1900's.

One big question remaining for me is are the Italian 1900 copies close enough to the original to use as spare parts?

Some interesting notes:

There was a cover article in Guns & Ammo magazine in the mid-1980's about the Viking line called "The Vikings Are Coming" but I don't think any guns beyond the test guns actually made it to the US. I will have to dig out the details on which issue it was.

Simpson Ltd. had one more of the Italian guns when I was last there about 3 weeks ago. It is chambered in 6.5x55 as I recall. The trigger guard / floor plate assembly seemed like plastic to me, is that true?
Reply author: Pettson
Replied on: 04/25/2007 10:10:19 AM
Message:

No, they're of aluminium alloy just as on the originals. But they are finished in a different way that indeed looks somewhat plastic.
On the HVA and CG, as you know, they were lacquered, the Zolis I think are anodized or something like that.

Pettson
Reply author: foudufoot
Replied on: 04/25/2007 10:30:51 PM
Message:

"One big question remaining for me is are the Italian 1900 copies close enough to the original to use as spare parts?"

AW Steve! Now that's too harsh!!
I've grown to love my Zoli, even if it's not a pure bred Swede! It may have been cooked by an Italian, but it's still a fine Swedish recipe! Dan


Would you use a gun for spare parts that looks like this
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and shoots like this?

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Reply author: sbhva
Replied on: 04/26/2007 08:41:49 AM
Message:

Foudufoot;

I wasn't implying that your gun was only useable as spare parts, but rather that there are probably spare parts available since it is of recent manufacture which could be used on the older Swedish made guns. The 1900's seem to suffer from the same disease as the 1640's, namely missingboltitis.
Reply author: Trex
Replied on: 04/26/2007 4:33:31 PM
Message:

Excellent reading material - it's a real help for me in understanding whats turning out to be a complicated history!! I remember the Husky motorcycles, great bikes and a lot of people were saddened when the production got into difficulties.
Reply author: foudufoot
Replied on: 04/26/2007 7:17:40 PM
Message:

quote:Originally posted by sbhva

Foudufoot;

I wasn't implying that your gun was only useable as spare parts, but rather that there are probably spare parts available since it is of recent manufacture which could be used on the older Swedish made guns. The 1900's seem to suffer from the same disease as the 1640's, namely missingboltitis.


I know you weren't talking about mine, Steve.
It just struck me funny. Dan

Kinda strange you would lose the bolt on a rifle....
Reply author: daniel phillips
Replied on: 04/28/2007 1:04:22 PM
Message:

guys, i have in the past helped some people get zoli parts , to fit husky 1900, s&w 1900, trigger guards floor plates screws,no problems, gun parts corp. ny.<>< daniel phillips
 

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Just bought a decent looking/shooting Viking Arms Sweden, Super Lux, Cal 3006, 1900 clone:

01_VIKING_LowRes.jpg

Mounted an "all-round" Schmidt & Bender 1.5-6x42 scope in QRW rings:

04_VIKING.jpg

She's a half-decent shooter too:

05_Target measured.png

Mannlicher barrel, Italian (engraved) action assembled in Värnamo, Sweden, by Lars (Lasse) Uno Wågeson. European Walnut stock made in Denmark. Plastic bedding from factory.

She can even carry a tiny "skirt":

05_VIKING.jpg

Happy Easter All,
Pete.
 

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Nice shooting...and rifle!
 

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I think the story of "Viking Arms Sweden" is interesting and would like to repeat what some of the involved people (Lars Wågeson, Sweden, and Jørgen Nielsen, Denmark) have told me during visits, over the phone and relay here what they have written in scandinavian online forums.

Translated from online forums:

"Viking Arms Sweden was started by Lars (Lasse) Uno Wågeson. The Viking actions were 1900 clones with the above mentioned addition of a button that released the bolt, so a chambered round could be extracted in a safe manner. This feature was developed and patented by Wågeson around 1985 when he worked on development of the Viking model 1990. Around 4000 rifles were produced with the Viking brand.

The Viking rifles are assembled from parts made by different companies.

The actions were produced by Metal Mecanica Stocceta, owned by Tonolini, and were hardened by "gas nitriding"

The "Standard" model was partly assembled by Zoli with a SIHLE stock and Zoli Barrel.

The "Lux" or "Lyx" model was assembled in Värnamo, Sweden, with a danish stock and Mannlicher barrel.

Full stock "standard" models features an Italian barrel and an american walnut stock produced in Denmark. Full stock "Lux" and "Super Lux" models had Mannlicher barrels and a european walnut stock made in Denmark.

Precision of the Mannlicher barrels were generally very good and often significantly better in a Viking action compared to a Mannlicher action. These barrels were sensible to fouling, however, and required periodic cleaning.

Wågeson left Viking in 1989 and it was continued by Lennart Norin, Per Oskarsson and Tommy Karlsson. Today Wågeson runs the store "Värnamo Vapen och Sport" in Sweden. Viking stopped production in 1992 and the remaining 800 barreled actions/rifles in store were exported to Denmark and finished/sold/exported from there."

Sources:
http://forum.robsoft.nu/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=32787&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

http://forum.robsoft.nu/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9390

http://forum.robsoft.nu/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=132695&hilit=1985
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I can add that it was Jørgen Nielsen, Denmark, who produced the Stocks for the "Lux" and "Super Lux" models and he was later to buy the danish Schultz and Larsen Rifle Company. With Schultz and Larsen Jørgen developed several successful rifle models including the Schultz and Larsen switch barrel models "97" and "Victory". Jørgen left Schultz and Larsen to start Nielsen Gun Parts where they produce and export fx brass bullets, suppressors and muzzle breaks worldwide.

Thus it may not come as a surprise that the shape of the stock as well as the bedding compound in the Viking and Schultz and Larsen rifles look strikingly similar. The recoil pads are identical.
Bottomline: when YOU know good people were involved, and the world has forgotten the story, you can get a good rifle cheap ;)

Here is a few additional pictures:

Viking rifle with it's decent recoil lug:
06_Viking.jpg

The Viking Super Lux is nicely bedded in the area around the recoil lug
07_Viking.jpg

The Schultz and Larsen "Victory" switch barrel system later produced by Jørgen Nielsen has a similar nice stock as the Viking. Here in driven hunt-mode with a 9.3x62 Mauser barrel and Leupold European 30 1.25-4x20 scope:
08_Viking.jpg

Cheers,
Pete
 

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Pemo:
excellent research.
clears up and ties in many things that as you said foggyly forgotten or restricted in knowledge many years.

again EXCELLENT STICKY INFO IF SOME ONE WOULD MAKE IT ONE...then as these guns come to light we can post photos and more seperated info ...trailing history to one spot for Vikings !
 

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Pemo:
excellent research.
clears up and ties in many things that as you said foggyly forgotten or restricted in knowledge many years.

again EXCELLENT STICKY INFO IF SOME ONE WOULD MAKE IT ONE...then as these guns come to light we can post photos and more seperated info ...trailing history to one spot for Vikings !
Thanks DK PHILLIPS -- The pleasure is all mine ;)

I'll take this "Viking Lady" back to Sweden for some Wild Boar hunting in Oct and Nov...
 
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