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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am looking at manufacturing a 20rnd 7.62x45 Mag. for the VZ 52. I am getting some quotes togeather now for a limited producton run. My feeling is there may be about 1500- 2000 here at most. Anyone who shoots these would appreciate a 20rnd mag. for it.
I would appreciate any insights on the estimated number VZ 52 in the U.S and canada.
 

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FWIW I think most shooters are anticipating hoping for non-corrosive 7.63x45 ammo to shoot these rifles ...alot of what I hear is that shooters don't want to run /fire corrosive ammo which is the available type..I fired corrosive thru mine once and will never again..a 20 rnd mag would be nice tho..
 

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I have 3 complete rifles + another 7 barrelled receivers, all in 7.62x45. Depending on the price, I would most likely be interested in some extra larger capacity magazines. I also know of 2 other owners who do not read these forums; they MIGHT be interested.
 

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Just my $0.02 Worth...

What I've heard is a lot of demand for replacement original magazines, as they are getting very difficult to find lately, and when the occasional specimen shows up it tends to be quite pricey.

Since most of us who have and shoot these rifles consider them to be "curios and relics" more than a viable survival / tactical weapon like an AK, AR, or SKS might be, I don't really see much of a demand for hi cap magazines for them. As far as I know, they were never made for issue and would not be an authentic accessory.

Since the X45 is a VERY obsolete cartridge, and ammo availability is a major concern for a tactical weapon, extra mag capacity is kind of a moot point in the VZ-52.
Now the 52/57 on the other hand, which accepts the standard X39 just might have a certain market for a hi cap - but I don't think that it would be a really significant one.

Also consider that the new "administration" is very liable to impose a new AWB and outlaw hi cap magazines.... again.

IMHO such a project would serve the VZ-52 shooting community best by offering a reasonably authentic REPLICA of the military issue 10-rd. magazine.

As for the VZ-52/57, I opine that rather than manufacture a whole new magazine, it would be more cost efficient to come up with an adapter or modification to convert standard AK-47 magazines to fit the VZ, sort of like is done with those "duckbill" adaptations for the SKS.

I have worked as a sheet metal fabricator and once tried to build a magazine for my FN-49.

If you have never tried it before, I can assure you that magazine building is one hefty challenge. Have you already built a functional magazine for a semi automatic firearm?

If not, give it a try; you might be surprised at just how tricky it can be.

You will need a good finger or box brake, a beading and tube roller, a kick and scroll shear, some machining tools, and probably a press brake and some dies for stamping the floorplate, follower and such.

Cutting your plates is fussy; final dimensions have to be spot on after you bend / roll and assemble them.

Welding thin sheet metal can be a trick too; soldering usually wont cut it.

Keep us posted on how the project is going, won't you?

 

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I agree with Uncle Jacque. Part of the "charm" of my Vz-52/57 actually IS the original ten shot capacity. If I want to shoot a rifle with a hi-cap magazine I'll just use one of my AK's or Vz-2000's. I do think there is a demand for ten shot 52/57 mags-people are always asking where they can be found.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi All,

Thanks for the feed back. All good considerations for this project. From the responses so far I see the following.

1) It may make sense to make 10rnd mags as well. Current supply is drying up.

2) The present administation may impose the ARB..again. If nobady goes crazy in a mail or school this won't happen right away. I think they have there hands full for the moment.

3) We are all waiting for affordable non corrosive ammo. "Until then it's roll your own". I think this becomes part of owning a unique rifle. Also, part of the fun

4) I got the manufactuing part coverd as I have been devloping "products" for the last 25 yrs. Only pricing will tell. I should know somthing by begining of Feb. Not planning on making these in my basment. These will look O.E.M 1956, eastren block. As if the Russians never made them switch rounds to 7.62x39. I think they would have come up with a 20 rnd mag.

5) The reason for doing this is. The VZ 52 is rugged, well made, accuate,easy to work on and 7.62x 45 is a great round. If I want a rifle in 7.62x39 I will get a VZ 58 style rifle...and I do want one.

6) So no one made a wild guess on how many VZ52 are in the country? Does 1500-2000 seem accurate?

7) In one day I got 81 viewings. This tells me there is interest. I think lots of folks would by 2...I would if the price was reasonable.

In any case it depends on the numbers. I'll will post updates as I get more information.

Thanks again
 

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Contact Century-I think most Vz-52's floating around were imported by them. 1500-2000 does seem light to me as well.
 

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I would have to agree that 2000 may be low. By comparison, supposedly only 2000 of the Egyptian Rasheeds were imported. How many of those do you see? There always seems to be a VZ52 floating around.
 

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Agree with the above posts. I suspect that the number of the rifles was several thousand, perhaps tens of thousands. I wouldn't consider them to be a rare rifle; uncommon-yes, rare-no. Not like the Vz 52/57. I believe that a great deal of the Vz 52's imported into this country were so ragged out from hard use that they were dissassembled for parts by importers and/or dealers.
 

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It Amazes Me...

...Why, if there are so many VZ-52s floating around, why no one has produced any non corrosive commercial ammo for it when they do make 7.92 X 37(or whatever it was - for the WW-II Sturmgewher.... how many of THOSE do you see in semi-auto configuration leaning in your local Dealer's corner or hung on the wall?) It just don't make no sense, does it?

Those punky VZ-52 stocks have been an ongoing issues with this rifle, but we now not only have successful adaptations of milsurp M-14 stocks, but a Member here is apparently turning out good replicas which are surely more sound than the originals.
A lot of 52s that have been sidelined by a busted stock should now be able to be restored to working condition, and having a ready supply of magazines - another reason a lot of them are out of action - should get even more of them back out of the closet and onto the range.

You'd think that a resurgence of the number of them being put back in action as well as interest in this unique rifle might convince someone to start cranking out some new fodder - but then again that would make too much sense so don't hold your breath. It's going to be a "creative reloader's" rifle for some time to come methinks.

Back to the magazines: Since you're all tooled up, by all means make a variety of denominations; an authentic replica for us traditionalists / history buffs and a hi cap for the guys who really have a need to blaze away.

Here's a thought: a lot of states limit magazine capacity for hunting; here in Maine it's five.
A magazine built for more rounds has to have a "block" of some kind so that no more rounds can be inserted. With an SKS that often involves drilling a hole through the back of the mag wall and running a screw in to block the follower from going any further down. I'd hate to go drilling holes in an original VZ mag, and if anyone is zany enough to want to go hunting with a VZ-52 (crazier things have been done in the sporting world) might like a 5-round mag. Just incidentally, a 5-round stripper clip would handily top such a box off, and as far as I know there is no restriction on the use of stripper clips in the field. You'd essentially have a similar reload set up as a Springfield or a Mauser. In my experience, the VZ loads a lot more smoothly with the stripper than my SKS does.

I have no doubt that a full house X45 using a good soft or hollow point bullet would be quite adequate for deer sized game at moderate ranges - about like the .303 Savage I would presume.

I dont know if you've noticed, but the balancing point of the rifle is right about between the charging handle and the magazine, which makes casual one hand carry sort of awkward.
A 5-round mag might be almost flush with the bottom of the stock and make the whole rig a lot more handy for carrying in the woods.

Once a batch of them is ready to go, put 'em up on the WTS board and I bet if they are not too pricey (competitive with similar mags like the commercial M1A1 for instance) I bet you'll sell a bunch or 'em. Then after market feedback and endorsement from satisfied users, put the next run on one of our Sponsors to get the market out beyond this humble realm into the rest of the shooting / collecting world.

You might not be the next Bill Gates, but there's a good chance that if the economy doesn't completely tank, or even better if it starts to recover, that you'll be decently compensated for your time. Or so we can hope!

I'll be looking forward to some pictures of your prototypes and a report on how well they feed.
 

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Of course, price is everything, but in the $30 price range I'd probably take two 20 rounders. I have 3 10 rnd magazines, but they could use new springs. I'd probably buy a couple of new 10 rounders as well, though I personally would have no interest in a 5 round mag.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
This is all very incouraging! I am trying to be very conservitive on my estimates of the number of rifles in the U.S so more than 2k would be great. I wonder how many got to Canada? Gotta be some up there. I am thinking $30 at the most for the Magazines.

Uncle Jaques you should have been in marketing:) A 5rnd mag is a good idea.
I actually have seen a few posts on using VZ 52 for Deer. All with really postive results.

I still need to do some reseach on "The laws" of making magazines for firearms. ATF may have somthing to say. Any help here would be appricated.

I contacted Starline to just make the Brass for the 7.62x45. The got back to me right away and said they are at capacity now. So why tool up for the 7.62x45. A bit short sighted I think. I am guessing most manufactures are busy with what they have now. So it is going to be a while before you can buy new ammo off the shelf. If ammunition for the rifle here where avaible the price for a decent VZ 52 in 7.62x45 would go up quite a bit.

Another project:
Anyone got an image of the M-14 stock w/ VZ 52 hardware? This is exactly what I was thinking of doing but, with using the modified original stock as the pattern. By removing the 2lbs of steel up front this would be a very handy rifle. I would not take a decent rifle or stock and chop them up for this project...by the way:) I got the "beat to hell" stock and am tracking down some parts floating around out there for the hardware. The Czch's actually tried making an 8mm semi m-14 looking rifle for export but had no takers. I think they ended up making about 150 of them.
 

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Pirated Selections:

Here are a few images that I've pirated off of this site some years ago - I forgot who I nipped them from but I hope they don't mind.

Here's one of the better ones:

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Here is a comparison of the receiver section of an M-14 stocked rifle vs. one in it's issue stock:

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Note how the trigger area has been cut up in the M-14 stock to allow for the shallower action of the VZ-52. Some lower the upper inlet in stead in order to get the receiver and fire control group together without making the stock look weird.

Also note how he filled in the notch for the select fire switch and a gap towards the front of the receiver with glass bedding compound.

Here some chap has rigged a very ingenious tubular metal hand guard up to his M-14 stocked VZ:

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Here is a bottom view, showing the mag well and the extensive cutting away of the trigger area:

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Now here's one where the guy dropped the inlet so as to leave the bottom of the stock flat over the trigger. He also retained the original hand guard which does not seem to work all that well as the forward end just sort of dangles out there.

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Myself I would try to modify the M-14 handguard and band to accept the VZ barrel, and possibly even wind an M-14 front sight base / bayo stud / flash supressor on the muzzle, if it would fit.

Frankly, I like the looks of the VZ-52 in a well done M-14 stock than I do in it's original configuration.

Now such a modded rig would be quite appropriate to stick a 20 rd. mag into IMHO, as that's what the ol' M-14 took. It would look quite at home on that stock.

If I could pick up a cheap busted stock '52 somewhere with a decent barrel I would be tempted to try one of these mods. Good surplus M-14 stocks are advertized in the "Shotgun News" but I forget the guy's name. (?)

I think $30 is a really square price for a decent mag, and the supply / demand curve ought to keep you busy at that level. When originals were available that's about what they were getting for them - more like $45 towards the end. As the supply of original equipment dries up and price of remaining stock rises, it becomes cost effective to start replicating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Previous post was a "Misfire" as I was trying to post an image. I guess I will have to read the manual.

Uncle Jacques, thanks for the great images. That first one is more what I was thinking.

Do you think they moved the gas port back to get the clear run on the barrel? Ideally I would like to use the original metal hand guard and set it back aginst the receiver face. To do this the gas port would need to move back. This brings up a whole bunch of questions on how this affects the action. I know they have done this on FAL with no problems.
 

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My biggest question for the M14 stock conversion is how does the rifle secure into the stock? In the original stock, it catches on the rear, then has the front catch that slides into the bayonet assembly.
 

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I welded two 10 rd. mags together and made a 20. It works OK but wouldn't want to make a bunch of them. Would have to come up with a jig to hold them and keep the weld from penetrating into the mag. and catching the follower.
 

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Idea?

I'm not a welder (and I wish I was) but others who are sometimes use a graphite "spud" to keep weld from getting inside a hollow piece.

If you were to sculpt a block of graphite to slide up inside the mag well, it would probably serve to position and allign the sections of mag as well by putting the joint in the middle of the spud.

Since the original mags are getting so scarce, I can hardly see cutting existing ones up to combine them to make hi-caps. It's certainly not the most economical way to go about it if you have the talent and resources to fabricate functional replicas.
 
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