How long will Gas last?
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Gasoline is good for about 6 months untreated. At least a year with Sta-Bil. I have gotten a full 2+ years with Sta-Bil and Amoco 93 here in hot South Florida.
Gasoline with 32 to 1 mix of quality synthetic or petrol based 2 stroke oil also lasts a good long time. A few cheap 2 stroke oils will go rancid fairly quickly. TCW-III Penzoil does work well in preventing gasoline from going bad.
Also, 100LL (avgas) available at your local small airport does not go bad (as far as I know). I have some that is 8 years old and is as fresh as the day I purchased it. It does evaporate, so keep it in a metal container. It needs no Sta-Bil.
Jet fuel (Jet A) also does not go bad. It can be substituted for diesel if 2 stroke oil is added.
Chris
Jet A is expensive. Locally, it is 5.50 a gallon. However, it really costs much less. The FBO's that pump Jet A into smaller jets really rip the customer off. It pays for that fancy lobby.
The airlines pay less than half that.
Take a look at www.100LL.com for an idea of what avgas costs in your area. Jet A is often less than 25 cents different.
Chris
The airlines pay less than half that.
Take a look at www.100LL.com for an idea of what avgas costs in your area. Jet A is often less than 25 cents different.
Chris
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I'm down to one barrel of regular, 87 octane gas that was purchased July 20, 2006. Already used one barrel in the cars and had no problems from the year old gas. I'm holding on to the last barrel until the end of hurricane season in November as that's enough to run my 5500 watt generator for a week. I store the gas with a 16 ounce bottle of CRC Marine fuel stabilizer which is actually enough for 80 gallons. It had been suggested that the fuel might be good for another year if I added a bottle of octane booster to counteract the deterioration (loss of octane) and another bottle of the stabilizer, but I've decided that it's not worth risking $3.00 a gallon gas that may not be usable when I need it just to see how long it will last. My best suggestion is to store your gas away from heat and light in an airtight container with room for expansion and use it within 2 years. I was advised and I advise against using sta-bil and similar products from the lawn and garden department because they can turn gummy and clog a carburetor in a generator which is the primary reason I store gas. Products such as the CRC or Sea Foam which are made to preserve fuel in boats are made to a higher standard than sta-bil.
Regards, Alan K.
Regards, Alan K.
While I have not had any problem using Sta-Bil in my long term gas, I have noticed some small staining spots in my "jerry jugs" at the bottom. It might be that the Sta-Bil causes certain components of the gas to settle out, or it could be water/bacteria that has settled.
In any case, The stains are not liquid and stay at the bottom of the jug. They do not clean off.
It could very well be that marine products are better suited to our needs.
In my case, I always purchase BP/Amoco 93 white gas. It seems to last and last. I am currently using a 2 year old batch with no problems. It does not even smell old.
Chris
In any case, The stains are not liquid and stay at the bottom of the jug. They do not clean off.
It could very well be that marine products are better suited to our needs.
In my case, I always purchase BP/Amoco 93 white gas. It seems to last and last. I am currently using a 2 year old batch with no problems. It does not even smell old.
Chris
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8,620 Posts
Sta-bil is a mainstay of many Kali motorcycle riders, particularly those with bikes that are still carburated. 93 octane? There's so much state mandated crud in our gas you can't buy anything above 91, at least not at a gas station. Never heard anybody report any problem with Sta-bil. Most people use it in winter when they don't ride much, but some run with it all the time and claim it keeps their carbs from gumming up.
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The high octane gasolines will not store any better then regular 87 octane.
This could have been true in the old days when the additives used in the higher octane's made it more stable but not any more, and that was the additives, not the higher octane that did it.
Also note, using a different the recommended by the engine manufacturer can cause a LOSS of performance in said engine. Higher octane IS NOT higher quality. Octane is simply that fuels resistance to auto-ignition in the combustion chamber. Too high octane and you'll loss power through inefficient combustion eventually leading to fouled plugs and increased deposits, to low of octane and the fuel will auto-ignite and the loss will be from the ignition happening at the wrong time in relation to the pistons position (inefficient due to timing) it will also cause damaging pressure increases in the cylinder and that pinging sound (caused by the flame front of the self ignited fuel hitting the flame front of the spark ignited fuel, and very high engine temps.
Best for storage is to start with fresh gas (almost every major brand with proper storage will last 1 year without treatments), store it in a proper place where the temps will remain as steady as possible (i.e. NOT in the sun) and in steel containers, some plastics will break down with long term use.
The top fuel stabilizers should keep the fuel "fresh" around 5 years if retreated once or twice a year (or per instructions).
Again proper storage is the best thing you can do for your fuel, indoors (obviously an outbuilding or shed) where temp changes are gradual and preferable 80º or less.
I had a lawn mower sit a good 5-6 years in my basement (heated/cooled).
When a friend needed to borrow it I checked the tank, it was a little darker but looked good, no corrosion, no dirt so I figured I'd try. Started and ran good, no problems.
Being a gear head and owning an antique vehicle I know about long term storage. Myself, I never use anything. I put my car 'away' for the winter anywhere from late November to late December (I drive it until they start throwing salt <the white death> on the streets, and take her out again (regularly) in mid March. Some times I take it out in January or February if it hasn't snowed in a while and the salt has washed away, but that's usually under 50 miles. Obviously with the 3/4 to 7/8 tank of gas that's in there in November doesn't need replenishing (25 gal tank) until late March thru mid April, about 5 months, never a problem and that's even with the reformulated crud (another note, if you can use NON oxygenated fuel for storage, it'll hold up better) I've heard good and bad about Sta-bil from others, but nothing bad about Power Research Inc (PRI) additives. Supposedly they've tested that stuff as long as 10 years and the gas was still good. Obviously it was probably under perfect conditions.
Again, I do not need or use additives so I can't vouch directly for either. There is a couple other brands I've heard about but do not recall the names, small companies though. Sta-bil and PRI are the two biggies I guess.
This could have been true in the old days when the additives used in the higher octane's made it more stable but not any more, and that was the additives, not the higher octane that did it.
Also note, using a different the recommended by the engine manufacturer can cause a LOSS of performance in said engine. Higher octane IS NOT higher quality. Octane is simply that fuels resistance to auto-ignition in the combustion chamber. Too high octane and you'll loss power through inefficient combustion eventually leading to fouled plugs and increased deposits, to low of octane and the fuel will auto-ignite and the loss will be from the ignition happening at the wrong time in relation to the pistons position (inefficient due to timing) it will also cause damaging pressure increases in the cylinder and that pinging sound (caused by the flame front of the self ignited fuel hitting the flame front of the spark ignited fuel, and very high engine temps.
Best for storage is to start with fresh gas (almost every major brand with proper storage will last 1 year without treatments), store it in a proper place where the temps will remain as steady as possible (i.e. NOT in the sun) and in steel containers, some plastics will break down with long term use.
The top fuel stabilizers should keep the fuel "fresh" around 5 years if retreated once or twice a year (or per instructions).
Again proper storage is the best thing you can do for your fuel, indoors (obviously an outbuilding or shed) where temp changes are gradual and preferable 80º or less.
I had a lawn mower sit a good 5-6 years in my basement (heated/cooled).
When a friend needed to borrow it I checked the tank, it was a little darker but looked good, no corrosion, no dirt so I figured I'd try. Started and ran good, no problems.
Being a gear head and owning an antique vehicle I know about long term storage. Myself, I never use anything. I put my car 'away' for the winter anywhere from late November to late December (I drive it until they start throwing salt <the white death> on the streets, and take her out again (regularly) in mid March. Some times I take it out in January or February if it hasn't snowed in a while and the salt has washed away, but that's usually under 50 miles. Obviously with the 3/4 to 7/8 tank of gas that's in there in November doesn't need replenishing (25 gal tank) until late March thru mid April, about 5 months, never a problem and that's even with the reformulated crud (another note, if you can use NON oxygenated fuel for storage, it'll hold up better) I've heard good and bad about Sta-bil from others, but nothing bad about Power Research Inc (PRI) additives. Supposedly they've tested that stuff as long as 10 years and the gas was still good. Obviously it was probably under perfect conditions.
Again, I do not need or use additives so I can't vouch directly for either. There is a couple other brands I've heard about but do not recall the names, small companies though. Sta-bil and PRI are the two biggies I guess.
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This is why I get 35 mpg with 89 vs 30 with 87 in a car that says run only 87? I also get 37 mpg with 92? but that extra 2mpg does not make up for teh added cost in the gas. This has happend in every car I have ever owned. from a 1972 Ford F-250 to a 2001 Hyundai accent to my brand new 2007 Satrun Ion. What you have to watch for if you are running say 92 or 93 octane in a engine rated for 87 is carbon build up. At least that is what my mechanic says.
That being said you have to watch this new gas in 2-stroke motors because I put in some gas with Echo 2-stroke oil w stabilizer in it in to my brand new Echo Chain saw and it would not run gas was only 4 months old. I went and got brand new gas added same oil and emptyed the tank and refilled it with new stuff it took two pulls to get the say started.
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It's possible these is carbon build up and the engine requires a higher octane to prevent preignition (caused by hot spots in the carbon build up), in which case the higher octane is a band-aid for the build up.
About the mpg improvement , especially across that variety of different vehicle/engine types, I've been around cars the better part of 3 decades, a mechanic most if it and restore or assist in restorations of classics, never actually seen that (mpg gains due to higher then required octane) happen before. I have seen people swear by many different things that actually do not nor can not occur, some of that due to some of that from wives tails, some from old techniques that USED to applicable (mothballs in the gas tank is one ofthe biggies, more later), some due to the fact that some product or service cost big bucks so it 'just has to be better'.
Also, in areas that have this reformulated gas can use "UP TO" 10% ethanol. Ethanol contains less BTUs per volume then straight gasoline. In some places even from the same companies, the amounts of ethanol between grades can very. MPG can easily, easily drop 3-5% with a 10% ethanol mix from the same octane rated fuels. About 20-25 miles from me the stations do not have to carry the ethanol mix. When my travels take me that way I try and make it there with almost no fuel and fill up there. Combined driving my GTP (supercharged Buick V6, mildly modified) gets 24+, highway steady 70 it gets 28.x. With straight gas combined goes up 2mpg, highway it goes up 4-5 to 32-33+ mpg. My Caprice (modified LT1) goes up from 21 combined to 24 and 26 to 28+ highway. Same exact octane, even the same brand, difference is just the 10% ethanol mix to straight gas.
Flawed testing is another thing that skews results. Your chain saw example is a perfect one.
You say the new gas is bad for 2 strokes because in ONE SINGLE instance you had a problem. Did you try that exact same batch of premix in several other 2 strokes? Did you try another brand of 'new' gas with the same oil? With different oil? The gas can could have been contaminated, the chainsaws tank could have been contaminated, something in the carb or ignition could have been stuck, jarred loose when you dumped what you perceived to be bad fuel. Dozens of variables that were over looked by simply dumping one tank of gas. Thus you can not come to the conclusion the new gas is not good for 2 stokes.
A major point your also overlooking, the millions of people that do not have any problems with new gas in their 2 strokes. I some areas that the ONLY type of gas we have. Myself, neighbors and friends with everything from cheap off brand to top end 2stroke, lawn mowers, chainsaws, string trimmers, leaf blowers, hedge trimmers, etc etc, have nary a problem due to the new gasoline.
About the mpg improvement , especially across that variety of different vehicle/engine types, I've been around cars the better part of 3 decades, a mechanic most if it and restore or assist in restorations of classics, never actually seen that (mpg gains due to higher then required octane) happen before. I have seen people swear by many different things that actually do not nor can not occur, some of that due to some of that from wives tails, some from old techniques that USED to applicable (mothballs in the gas tank is one ofthe biggies, more later), some due to the fact that some product or service cost big bucks so it 'just has to be better'.
Also, in areas that have this reformulated gas can use "UP TO" 10% ethanol. Ethanol contains less BTUs per volume then straight gasoline. In some places even from the same companies, the amounts of ethanol between grades can very. MPG can easily, easily drop 3-5% with a 10% ethanol mix from the same octane rated fuels. About 20-25 miles from me the stations do not have to carry the ethanol mix. When my travels take me that way I try and make it there with almost no fuel and fill up there. Combined driving my GTP (supercharged Buick V6, mildly modified) gets 24+, highway steady 70 it gets 28.x. With straight gas combined goes up 2mpg, highway it goes up 4-5 to 32-33+ mpg. My Caprice (modified LT1) goes up from 21 combined to 24 and 26 to 28+ highway. Same exact octane, even the same brand, difference is just the 10% ethanol mix to straight gas.
Flawed testing is another thing that skews results. Your chain saw example is a perfect one.
You say the new gas is bad for 2 strokes because in ONE SINGLE instance you had a problem. Did you try that exact same batch of premix in several other 2 strokes? Did you try another brand of 'new' gas with the same oil? With different oil? The gas can could have been contaminated, the chainsaws tank could have been contaminated, something in the carb or ignition could have been stuck, jarred loose when you dumped what you perceived to be bad fuel. Dozens of variables that were over looked by simply dumping one tank of gas. Thus you can not come to the conclusion the new gas is not good for 2 stokes.
A major point your also overlooking, the millions of people that do not have any problems with new gas in their 2 strokes. I some areas that the ONLY type of gas we have. Myself, neighbors and friends with everything from cheap off brand to top end 2stroke, lawn mowers, chainsaws, string trimmers, leaf blowers, hedge trimmers, etc etc, have nary a problem due to the new gasoline.
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I did not say that the new gas is bad for them I said it went bad after only 2 or 3 months. With Echo 2-stroke oil (Which has stabilizer in it). I will say this, this gas there putting out now is crap.
I will stand buy my mpg because I check it every other tank. That is the numbers I get. Driving the same and driving the same route.
I run the same gas in everything from my car to my chainsaw to my troy built 4 stroke weed trimmer. it all does good. but that gas i put in a brand new chain saw it would not start and it did not start the leaf blower I have either. There for I assume it is the gas.
I too have been about cars truck and small engines for a long time working on them. I have helped in the restoration of a few cars. Working on a Race Car that Ran 216 mph with my dad behind the wheel. I have worked on sprint cars, 2 and 4 stroke motorcycles both on and off road.
I will stand buy my mpg because I check it every other tank. That is the numbers I get. Driving the same and driving the same route.
I run the same gas in everything from my car to my chainsaw to my troy built 4 stroke weed trimmer. it all does good. but that gas i put in a brand new chain saw it would not start and it did not start the leaf blower I have either. There for I assume it is the gas.
I too have been about cars truck and small engines for a long time working on them. I have helped in the restoration of a few cars. Working on a Race Car that Ran 216 mph with my dad behind the wheel. I have worked on sprint cars, 2 and 4 stroke motorcycles both on and off road.
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Under 6 months is fairly safe. I have had gas sit for over a year before and work just fine though, without any kind of stabilizer.
I wouldn't want to have to rely on any gas in an emergency that is over 1 year old though (w/o stabilizers)...
I wouldn't want to have to rely on any gas in an emergency that is over 1 year old though (w/o stabilizers)...
Back to the second question, how long will oil last?
As long as it is in a well sealed container (airtight) most modern non-detergent motor oils will last indefinately.
detergent oils or those with alot of aditives will last a very long time (10-20 years) but again they need to be airtight.
The main thing is keeping moisture out of them. If the container is not air tight, then you will eventually get condensation, and moisture will ruin the oil.
As long as it is in a well sealed container (airtight) most modern non-detergent motor oils will last indefinately.
detergent oils or those with alot of aditives will last a very long time (10-20 years) but again they need to be airtight.
The main thing is keeping moisture out of them. If the container is not air tight, then you will eventually get condensation, and moisture will ruin the oil.
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I got into hauling scrap iron for a while in my spare time a few years back .
Heres what I saw .
Cars/trucks would still start , drive after up to ten years of sitting . Albeit not as well , but the gas still burned and the oil still circulated.
Many times I would drain the old gas out to use for fire starting ect. If less than 5 years old , I'd put it in my work truck and run it .
That is ' bout all I got to say 'bout that .
Heres what I saw .
Cars/trucks would still start , drive after up to ten years of sitting . Albeit not as well , but the gas still burned and the oil still circulated.
Many times I would drain the old gas out to use for fire starting ect. If less than 5 years old , I'd put it in my work truck and run it .
That is ' bout all I got to say 'bout that .
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