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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Historical Document - Translation??
Topic URL: [URL]http://old.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=120043[/URL]



Topic author: arisakadogs
Subject: Historical Document - Translation??
Posted on: 08/16/2005 9:50:24 PM
Message:
I was talking about the movie "The Great Raid" at work yesterday. (Still haven't seen it - not in my area!). A lady said her Mother & Grandmother were interred in a Japanese camp near Jakarta, Indonesia. She brought in her G'mothers camp I.D. today & I told her I would try to find out what it says. I know it's not about firearms, but I think we all have an appreciation of Pacific War history. I hope someone can interprete this as I know it would mean a lot to this lady! Thanks!

http://forums.gunboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9320&stc=1&d=1191719695
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Here's the writing under the piece of paper
http://forums.gunboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9321&stc=1&d=1191719695

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Replies:

Reply author: ketoujin
Replied on: 08/17/2005 02:28:57 AM
Message:
Hi A-dogs,
That is one interesting document. It is, as you probably guessed, a record of this woman's "foreigner residence registration" in Yogyakarta province of Java. It is dated June 6th, 1942. I can find no reference to a civilian internment camp (CIC) as such, but perhaps "residence" referred to living within such a camp. The headings of the columns in the document is in Japanese but the information is written in Malay. There is information on her name, date of birth, current place of residence, place of birth,occupation (whatever a "ridak bekerdja" is), length of time as a resident of the East Indies (37 years - her entire life) spousal information and children. The bottom refers to making a "sincere declaration" to Japanese military authorities, I suppose to the effect that the information she gave was correct. To add insult to injury I think it says somewhere on there about there being an 80 rupiah "registration fee" too.
Somebody will no doubt have a better translation but that is what I get thus far. The Malay is written in an old style of the time. I'm not good enough to attempt to translate the back. I'll defer to the board's devoted translators for that. A fascinating document though. I once knew a guy whose Grandpa was an officer of Eurasian extraction in the Dutch KNIL Army and whose family spent time in a camp too - perhaps they knew this woman. How interesting.

Gunnar

Reply author: pato1
Replied on: 08/17/2005 10:34:14 AM
Message:
The Bahasa (Indonesian) tingi from the first page top to bottom:


(B) Name
Address
born May 2nd 1905

(c) Jogjarta district 8

(d) (i)Dutch with 2 chidlren
(3)Java
(r) not employed

(f) 37 years

(l) Husband (male in custody) 2 children
childs name 15 years female
childs name 12 years male

Can't see too well, at the bottom of the page there are printed headings for the information requested:

A. number B. name and age C. location now D. (1) nationality (2) place of birth E. occupation F. how many years in this country G. (1)married or not (2) family in country

The second page:

the first line in big print says "Warning"

the first paragraph contains language to the effect that this card must be carried at all times and appears to be a repeat of the Japanese to the left.


Reply author: arisakadogs
Replied on: 08/17/2005 10:07:41 PM
Message:
Pato - Thank you! I'll get this information to the lady at work. Can you make out any more of the warning section?


Reply author: pato1
Replied on: 08/18/2005 3:18:18 PM
Message:
Dogs,
I think this document was originally translated Japanese to Dutch to Bahasa and as such to get the best original meaning from it you need to translate it from the original Japanese. Sadly Japanese is not a language that I'm fluent in. As Ketoujin says it not easy to read, because it seems to be written with Dutch spelling and syntax of "Bahasa Tinggi" as apposed to Bahasa Pasar which most people use.
Indonesia was a Dutch colony until given it's independance by the Japanese in 1945. While Malay and Indonesian are very similar there are differences mostly due to borrowed/adapted words from their colonizer's language. Dutch for Indonesia, English for Malaya.
As I say, I think you would be better off translating the Japanese side.


Reply author: arisakadogs
Replied on: 08/18/2005 10:23:08 PM
Message:
Pato, I thank you for your efforts! I printed out the above & gave it to the lady at work today & she was quite pleased & suprised by the information given, so far. The part about the woman's husband being "in custody" came as no suprise to her as she said her Grandfather was quite a character & her Grandmother later divorced him!
I'm still curious about her Grandmothers accounts of the interment camp. Were civilians, maybe, rounded up & interred as the war started going bad for Japan?


Reply author: pato1
Replied on: 08/19/2005 7:02:26 PM
Message:




quote: Originally posted by arisakadogs
Pato, I thank you for your efforts! I printed out the above & gave it to the lady at work today & she was quite pleased & suprised by the information given, so far. The part about the woman's husband being "in custody" came as no suprise to her as she said her Grandfather was quite a character & her Grandmother later divorced him!
I'm still curious about her Grandmothers accounts of the interment camp. Were civilians, maybe, rounded up & interred as the war started going bad for Japan?
Perhaps Granfather was in the Dutch Military and was being held as a POW, if so he was lucky to survive.
I was told by people (civilians)who were intered in Palembang (a city in Sumatra) that the Japanese interned all the Dutch civilians as soon as they took over. These same people told me of terrible conditions and brutal treatment at the hands of the Japanese. Medicine was in especially short supply, I remember hearing a story of a few tablets of asprin being traded for an expensive wrist watch in an effort to save a child with a dangerously high fever.
I would expect that your friend's mother and grandmother had an even tougher experience in Java given the fact that Java was the locus for many bloody encounters between the Indonesians and the Dutch. Sumatra was and still is oil country, the Japanese were none too pleased that the Dutch had destroyed much of the oil field before the Japanese took them over.
The people of Sumatra did not share the pain to the same degree from the Dutch/Indonesian confrontation of those times and thus had better relations.


Reply author: arisakadogs
Replied on: 08/19/2005 10:10:25 PM
Message:
Pato, it seems both this lady's Grandmother & Mother (and other family members) wound up in a camp and passed down stories of waiting near the fence to catch grasshoppers to eat!



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