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Ore. Teacher Wants to Take Gun to School
Monday, October 8, 2007 8:34 PM EDT
The Associated Press
By JEFF BARNARD Associated Press Writer

MEDFORD, Ore. (AP) — High school English teacher Shirley Katz insists she needs to take her pistol with her to work because she fears her ex-husband could show up and try to harm her. She's also worried about a Columbine-style attack.

But Katz's district has barred teachers from bringing guns to school, so she is challenging the ban as unlawful, since Oregon is among states that allow people with a permit to carry concealed weapons into public buildings.

"This is primarily about my Second Amendment right and Oregon law and the simple fact that I know it is my right to carry that gun," said Katz, 44, sitting at the kitchen table of her home outside this city of 74,000.

"I have that (concealed weapons) permit. I refuse to let my ex-husband bully me. And I am not going to let the school board bully me, either."

In Oregon, a sheriff can grant a concealed-weapons permit to anyone whose criminal record is clean and who completes a gun-safety course.

Thirty-eight states, along with the District of Columbia, prohibit people from taking guns to school, according to the National Council of State Legislatures. But it's unclear how many offer an exemption for people holding concealed-weapons permits, since the council does not track such exceptions.

Superintendent Phil Long insists employees and students are safer without guns on campus at South Medford High School, where Katz teaches. The district plans to make that argument when the case comes before a judge on Thursday.

Katz's request appears to be rare. School security consultant Ken Trump, president of National School Safety and Security Services in Cleveland, said he has never heard of a similar case while working in 45 states.

Katz won't say whether she has ever taken her 9 mm Glock pistol to school, but she practices with it regularly and has thought about what she would do if she had to confront a gunman. She would be sure students were locked in nearby offices out of the line of fire, and she would be ready with her pistol.

"Our safety plan at our school now is that if somebody threatening comes in, you try to avoid eye contact, and do whatever they say, and that is not acceptable anymore," she said. Shootings at Virginia Tech University and the one-room Amish school in Pennsylvania, "reinforced my belief we have to take action, we can't just acquiesce as we have been taught to do."

Katz never owned a gun until she and her then-husband, commercial photographer Gerry Katz, moved to Oregon from Atlanta eight years ago and bought 20 acres on a gravel road in the foothills of the Cascade Range.

"Being out in the country, we just felt we needed to have a gun here for personal safety," she said.

In 2004, Gerry Katz, who had a concealed weapons permit, was arrested for pulling a .38-caliber revolver after a confrontation that began in a parking lot with two men whose car almost hit his.

According to the police report, he did not point the weapon at anyone. The police seized it, and the charges were later dismissed. Gerry Katz said he never went back for his gun.

Shirley Katz said she bought her own gun in 2004 after Gerry Katz grabbed her by the throat and threatened to kill her — an allegation he denies.

He argues that her desire to take her gun to school is about reopening their divorce to get exclusive custody of their 6-year-old daughter.

"She's just scamming everybody," he said. "As soon as this thing started ... I called the principal at her high school and told her ... I am not coming to your school. I am not a threat to her. I have no desire to hurt her."

Oregon had a school shooting in 1998, when student Kip Kinkel killed his parents at home, then drove to school and opened fire in the cafeteria of Thurston High School in Springfield, killing two and wounding 25 others.

Since then, the Legislature has considered barring people with concealed weapons permits from carrying guns in schools, but the bills have failed, said Dori Brattain, general counsel to the Oregon School Boards Association.

Some South Medford students say they are uncomfortable with the idea of a teacher carrying a gun, especially since they cannot bring even scissors to school.

"I totally understand she wants to protect herself," said Lauren Forderer, 16, a junior. "But I don't agree she should bring her problems around 2,000 other people."

Even if she wins, Katz said, she may not bring the gun to school.

"The whole point of carrying concealed is no one should know you're carrying," she said. "So I feel like my carrying concealed on campus now sets me up as a target."
 

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Her efforts are likely not going to get her anywhere. Although, the whole state now knows her ex-husband alegedly threatened to kill her, so that risk to her might have been somewhat reduced by her making it public. I wish her luck.
 

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By all indicators she's another example of a biatch abusing the system to gain the upper hand in a custody dispute. For that (if true) I hope she dies in a fire while kids are with Dad.

Still, I hope she wins her case. We NEED armed teachers if we're to end the spate of school-shooters.

DD
 

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And suddenly all the students around her would be like they were in the old days, respectfull and scared, it would be like when I was a kid in the 70's where one teacher would get our attention when he explained what he did with a flame thrower when he heard japs in ww2, too much chatter and you can get fried, ah, those were the days, we all were scared we'd push him over the edge and there would be no way out of the classroom, so it tended to be peaceful.

Nah, back then, bout this time of the year, some of the teachers brought their hunting rifles to their classes and locked them up in a closet so they could run right out to the woods after school to hunt during the waning light, THEN YOU KNEW then youi were safe, that none of the wierdo's who walked the railroad tracks nearby or any wild animals couldn't really get ya if it came on down to it, we had a principal who supposedly may have kept a .45 in his desk. Them were the days, now society is like, well, just gayer and gayer than ever, more unsafe, you'd think there would be .45's in every principal's office, should be standard issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
By all indicators ...
DD
Huh? What "indicators"? The husband is the loose cannon here, remember HE pulled a gun on two people in a parking lot when their car ALMOST(!) hit his... they obviously called police and they arrested him, confiscating his weapon. I would side with her on all counts due to his previous behavior: threats and arrest.
 

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You've fallen for the media's "men and guns are evil" spin.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jGLqbyW_oXVAOOZmJx8D6rKQ8n4AD8S59HRO0

"...
In 2004, Gerry Katz, who had a concealed weapons permit, was arrested for pulling a .38-caliber revolver after a confrontation that began in a parking lot with two men whose car almost hit his.


According to the police report, he did not point the weapon at anyone.



The police seized it, and the charges were later dismissed. ..."
That's what you call a "loose cannon"?

If I am in a confrontation with (2) guys and they step toward me, mine's coming out too. Does that make me a "loose cannon"?

HE got arrested in Oregon. Not TOTALLY GFW-central but right next door. The charges were dismissed. That tells me he was in the right.


...Gerry Katz said he never went back for his gun.


Shirley Katz said she bought her own gun in 2004 after Gerry Katz grabbed her by the throat and threatened to kill her — an allegation he denies.


He argues that her desire to take her gun to school is about reopening their divorce to get exclusive custody of their 6-year-old daughter.


"She's just scamming everybody," he said. "As soon as this thing started ... I called the principal at her high school and told her ... I am not coming to your school. I am not a threat to her. I have no desire to hurt her."
..."
There's more, if you care to look.



DD
 

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Discussion Starter #8
hearsay hearsay hearsay he said she said... not valid. None, zero.

You've fallen for the media's "men and guns are evil" spin.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jGLqbyW_oXVAOOZmJx8D6rKQ8n4AD8S59HRO0



That's what you call a "loose cannon"?

If I am in a confrontation with (2) guys and they step toward me, mine's coming out too. Does that make me a "loose cannon"?

HE got arrested in Oregon. Not TOTALLY GFW-central but right next door. The charges were dismissed. That tells me he was in the right.




There's more, if you care to look.



DD
What you have as "indicators", that you take as TRUE FACTS is just hilarious AND "hearsay"... you do know what hearsay is? I, on the other hand, trust the police action as fact, they had cause to arrest and did so deeming him a threat due to his behaviour. When was the last time you pulled a gun on someone who almost hit your car besides... there is NOTHING in the article that says they were coming towards him, as you say, you just made that up! And also nothing said about who started the confrontation, but now I surmise it was him since he was arrested and carted off, ya think maybe? No "evil & guns" here at all... you're judgement of her is based on perception, hearsay and faulty logic.
 

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By definition, all we know about this case is "hearsay."

He got arrested for pulling a gun in Oregon.

You're not a stupid guy (BOTD), if his "brandishing" was not legit, you know damn well they'd have pressed the charges.

Why is it when you believe what she says it's OK, but when I believe him it's "...based on perception, hearsay and faulty logic. ..."

Gawrsh -- you're right. I see the truth now. It's not like the media or courts have any bias against men, or restraining orders are issued to women for the asking, or women ever abuse them to gain the upper hand in a custody dispute... :rolleyes:

Seriously, dude -- did you read that before you posted it?

DD
 

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She could have made the whole thing up, but either way, a judge has given her permission to carry her gun at school, at least temporarily. This could be a precident. I would like to see properly trained, armed teachers in classrooms. It would be an end to this Columbine type nonsense.
 

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It would be an end to this Columbine type nonsense.
Perhaps and perhaps not. It takes a certain mindset to make the determination of whether to shoot or to threaten. This would not be an easy decision and hestitation could have adverse affects.

But an armed teacher might act as a deterrent as the kid might not be aware of the foregoing. Or it could make the teacher the first target.
 
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