[milprileb]

If this is a rare rifle, then leave it as it is. If its a shooter, slap on a replacement stock and stow the original stocked (tagged) and move on. Historical & rare weapons are what they are in 2021 ... Case in Point: .ask any Civil War rifle in any museum with a cracked stock ! The race to fix this rifle ought to be tempered if the originality of this Paki rifle is relevant.

but then again, we have the Ishapore screw so why not the Gorilla Glue DDTR (Disaster Dog Thorough Repair)

Or ,Horrors of Horrors, slap a replacement stock on this rifle. Its been scrubbed, will never recover from that, was re stamped by Paki's and its beyond ever being original or "correct". Doubtful the world has a POF Collectors Club but never say never, we have a RTI No.4 "Been Skunked" club.

Finding a replacement PAKI butt stock might not be that hard. Some suspects seen on Ebay last year.

I wish at times we here would be more like a CMP Garand forum: a stock is a stock and stocks got replaced in military as the are an expendable item. So having a replaced issue butt stock is not the end of the earth as it often is here on Enfield forum. On DD's rifle , the metal is all original for a Paki Rework, has original fore arm and a replacement stock is not the end of the world. sometimes collectors need to waiver expendable items.

 

[22SqnRAE]

I wish at times we here would be more like a CMP Garand forum: a stock is a stock and stocks got replaced in military as the are an expendable item. So having a replaced issue butt stock is not the end of the earth as it often is here on Enfield forum.

A very valid and sensible point. Agreed.

 

[waw44]

Excellent, got you thinking about it. That was the purpose of the very crude approach.

Yes, and let's wait for DDog to chime in.

My initial thoughts were to follow sort of your approach, but to first glue and clamp the cracks, then have two rows of vertical fastener holes and use brass trim screws instead of dowels, predrilled of course, countersink them and then use a dowel to cover the head hole. This way you get a smaller diameter hole for the repair fastener, necessary for smaller space as you are working on both sides of the mount bolt hole. Mechanical fastener will also grip better, given the smaller diameter, than an epoxied dowel. Still, at the end of this, you're looking at 4-6 screws and head/dowel spots, so the stock would start looking like it has the Pox, but it would probably stand up to being used in a shooter.

 

[waw44]

Finding a replacement PAKI butt stock might not be that hard. Some suspects seen on Ebay last year.

Actually.... I have people at work.... so, send me a stock, any stock and I'll make sure it becomes a Paki stock. Trust me..

It will get flown to Pakistan and rolled in whatever material you wish to create that patina you need... By whatever material, I really mean it... including goat/chicken/dog shi.... if you need it!

 

[22SqnRAE]

My initial thoughts were to follow sort of your approach, but to first glue and clamp the cracks, then have two rows of vertical fastener holes and use brass trim screws instead of dowels, predrilled of course, countersink them and then use a dowel to cover the head hole. This way you get a smaller diameter hole for the repair fastener, necessary for smaller space as you are working on both sides of the mount bolt hole. Mechanical fastener will also grip better, given the smaller diameter, than an epoxied dowel. Still, at the end of this, you're looking at 4-6 screws and head/dowel spots, so the stock would start looking like it has the Pox, but it would probably stand up to being used in a shooter.

The intent was threaded brass rod. In DDogs earlier discussion, Brownell's offering of threaded stock repair brass was discussed. Can't see what I typed above now, but I hope I didn't mention dowel (as in timber) as that's not intended by any means.

I like the idea of countersinking and plugging, but I'd probably think it's going a little over the top for this rifle. The added radius to accommodate might preclude its use with limited 'meat' to bit into and not split the surrounding timber.

 

[milprileb]

Just a note on cracked stocks. Awhile back a slug of Enfields (Greece? Turkey? Paki ? Indian ?) were sold here and
they all had wood repairs on butt stocks due no doubt from parade ground bashing of rifles down on the square. Really
ugly as sin repairs, chunks of wood stuffed into stocks to salvage them. Some here just wet their pants over the lovely ambiance of such beaten rifles and no doubt ..and silently done (you know who your are), replacement stocks stuffed onto these rifles and now they are fine & dandy. If sold , they arise no concerns, as they have been there and done that.

Most all Enfields are 75 yrs and many 100 years old. If one can find a replacement butt stock, what difference does it make to put it on to a rifle needing a serviceable butt stock ? Comes a point , we need to bury the Purists here in their misery and rest of us just be happy to find a great Enfield in which the worst thing that happened to it was its butt stock got replaced. Of course, that would fall on deaf ears to the RTI Skunked Club, they wanted "as issued / found in Ethiopia " and lucky them: they got what the wanted.

I am all for a new forum of collecting : "As found in Somalia , As found in Sudan etc etc etc". Only Enfield archaeologists can join.

 

[Lyman1903]

truth is it just depends on where those cracks are in relation to the center hole for the stock bolt,

if it is on either side, it can still be done with the brass threaded rods, one will just have to be careful,


Brownell's Acraglas is the go to for stock repair,
honestly the liquid may be easier in this case than the gel,

and if Clamped (Cramped) right, it may work w/o the pins

 

[JB White]

There is also the option of threaded rods on either side of the hole. If need be.
I have a,ready PMd DD with another scenario.
Once the stock is loosens, removed from the rifle and the buttplate undone, should it be in two separate pieces (the crack shows on both sides) it would be easier and less noticeable to approach it as a total glue-up.
Dry fit the bits back together. Glue as any wood shop would and leave clamped for 48 hours. Making the effort to clean off any squeeze out naturally. Using the right adhesive the joint would be strong enough, maybe stronger than the wood itself.
No need for dowels or pins, or Heaven forbid screws.

I'm never been a fan of Gorilla Glue. It expands to fill voids which means it also wants to separate the joint. It brittles with age meaning it's prone to failure. Its a one way one time fix. Should it need attention down the road you're talking larger amounts of wood removal to get another repair attempt to even take hold.
I've used Gorilla Glue around the house. I tossed a few furniture items into the trash afterward. Cheap furniture justifiable as an experiment. Epic fail. It was impressive for the first few months to a year. Then total crap.
I learned not to trust Gorilla Tape as well. Grabs tight when fresh but doesn't stay fresh for long. Probably better to wrap the joint in rags and tie wire.

edit: I see Lyman and I are both on the same page at right around the same time

 

[Lyman1903]

If this is a rare rifle, then leave it as it is. If its a shooter, slap on a replacement stock and stow the original stocked (tagged) and move on. Historical & rare weapons are what they are in 2021 ... Case in Point: .ask any Civil War rifle in any museum with a cracked stock ! The race to fix this rifle ought to be tempered if the originality of this Paki rifle is relevant.

but then again, we have the Ishapore screw so why not the Gorilla Glue DDTR (Disaster Dog Thorough Repair)

Or ,Horrors of Horrors, slap a replacement stock on this rifle. Its been scrubbed, will never recover from that, was re stamped by Paki's and its beyond ever being original or "correct". Doubtful the world has a POF Collectors Club but never say never, we have a RTI No.4 "Been Skunked" club.

Finding a replacement PAKI butt stock might not be that hard. Some suspects seen on Ebay last year.

I wish at times we here would be more like a CMP Garand forum: a stock is a stock and stocks got replaced in military as the are an expendable item. So having a replaced issue butt stock is not the end of the earth as it often is here on Enfield forum. On DD's rifle , the metal is all original for a Paki Rework, has original fore arm and a replacement stock is not the end of the world. sometimes collectors need to waiver expendable items.

Skip you know as well as I that there are CMP (and Garand) and Garand folks that would rather boil in a pot than replace a stock, even it is is a mixmaster to begin with,

and let's not discuss the Carbine guys

 

[Lyman1903]

There is also the option of threaded rods on either side of the hole. If need be.
I have a,ready PMd DD with another scenario.
Once the stock is loosens, removed from the rifle and the buttplate undone, should it be in two separate pieces (the crack shows on both sides) it would be easier and less noticeable to approach it as a total glue-up.
Dry fit the bits back together. Glue as any wood shop would and leave clamped for 48 hours. Making the effort to clean off any squeeze out naturally. Using the right adhesive the joint would be strong enough, maybe stronger than the wood itself.
No need for dowels or pins, or Heaven forbid screws.

I'm never been a fan of Gorilla Glue. It expands to fill voids which means it also wants to separate the joint. It brittles with age meaning it's prone to failure. Its a one way one time fix. Should it need attention down the road you're talking larger amounts of wood removal to get another repair attempt to even take hold.
I've used Gorilla Glue around the house. I tossed a few furniture items into the trash afterward. Cheap furniture justifiable as an experiment. Epic fail. It was impressive for the first few months to a year. Then total crap.
I learned not to trust Gorilla Tape as well. Grabs tight when fresh but doesn't stay fresh for long. Probably better to wrap the joint in rags and tie wire.

edit: I see Lyman and I are both on the same page at right around the same time

yup,

and the Gorilla Glue makes a great hair pomade,,,


unless you are a Dapper Dan Man

 

[JB White]

Skip you know as well as I that there are CMP (and Garand) and Garand folks that would rather boil in a pot than replace a stock, even it is is a mixmaster to begin with,

and let's not discuss the Carbine guys

Yet sometimes it means throwing a third to half a rifle aside for the sake of matching drawing numbers.

 

[JB White]

yup,

and the Gorilla Glue makes a great hair pomade,,,


unless you are a Dapper Dan Man

Even the old punk rockers knew to use water soluable 'school glue'!
Gorilla Glue in the hair....what can be said that truly describes that person?

 

[SDigger]

Prolly “Gorilla’s In The Mist”🦧 🙈🤢😉

 

[JB White]

Prolly “Gorilla’s In The Mist”🦧 🙈🤢😉

More like Gorilla has missed. AFAIC

 

[Alan De Enfield]

On DD's rifle , the metal is all original for a Paki Rework,

Is there anything that makes you think it is a 're-work' rather than POF built ?

Remember that POF got the BSA machinery in 1956 and the Fazakerley machinery a few years later.
This one is dated 1960 so could have been built on either equipment

 

[milprileb]

Is there anything that makes you think it is a 're-work' rather than POF built ?

Remember that POF got the BSA machinery in 1956 and the Fazakerley machinery a few years later.
This one is dated 1960 so could have been built on either equipment

Alan,

THanks to noting those facts. What gets my radar spinning is the wrist area looks discolored and buffed out, then Paki makings stamped on the wrist Now...that may be lighting and camera gremlins at play, I am sure Dog will jump in and provide substance. If that is indeed a Paki made No4Mk2 receiver, then Dog has a less seen No4Mk2 and in my mind
just needs a No.4 butt stock. Ritual suicide not necessary about replacing that butt stock. I would guess the Paki arms
industry had plenty of British NOS parts such as butt stocks or re purposed No.4 stocks off unserviceable rifles and used such parts in repairing rifles and putting them back into active service.

Butt stocks like slings are expendable consumable items. However, that statement comes from a old soldier used to the military thought process of parts is parts. Fix the rifle and get it back on line for use. Tires are tires, butt stocks same thing : replace as necessary.

 

[milprileb]

Skip you know as well as I that there are CMP (and Garand) and Garand folks that would rather boil in a pot than replace a stock, even it is is a mixmaster to begin with,

and let's not discuss the Carbine guys

Lyman , two things for you.

a. You are indeed a Dapper Dan man.
b. Yes, Garand collectors have a cult that hang onto "originality" and won't touch a single part but then they have Legions
that make a "Garand Correct". One only has to surf CMP forums to find discussions of making M1's correct . Correct by not only manufacture but drawing numbers and other obtuse rationale. And for Carbine guys, they could not contain them selves from tearing off the Italian "FAT" cartouched stocks from Italian return carbines to make them Correct.
Yet a righteous M1 Rifle or M1 Carbine with a real but not cartouched GI replacement stock still brings in scary high resale prices.

I will digress so forgive me, and I 've told this tale here before but here goes : In about 2009 on GB Trader there was a Long Branch No4Mk1* that hung for sale many days , the long size butt stock with NZ marking on it was clearly by color , not a Correct nor Original stock and clearly some past owner put this off color stock on the rifle. No one wanted this rifle , dismissed it totally looking at photo and that off color butt stock. With C&R , I bought it , got a insanely stupidly low price on it because I whizzed on the seller about the butt stock was a replacement. Not selling in several days, my offer was accepted and I got the rifle. It was a 99% condition Weedon arsenal FTR with suncorite finish (we all know Canucks did not suncorite Long Branche No4Mk1*). The distractor was the LONG size NZ marked stock of non matching wood installed by some previous owner. I merely put a original NOS Long Branch stock on the rifle and off to the races I went. Sold the NZ long stock to one of you who wanted to make his NZ marked No4 "Correct" or get his Nz marked rifle to fit him. That buyer paid a killer price for that butt stock , thus reducing my actual cost of Weedon FTR to about 160 dollars.

On the 1000 yard line a Enfield collector rushed over to tell me : "Not sure but I think that butt stock might be a replacement and not correct". My answer: " Don't care, I'm on the 1000 yd line with this rifle.". Not an archaeologist of Canuck wood, everything looks bloody wonderful with butt stock matching fore end so I am not one bit concerned , Original NOS Canuck Long Branch WWII butt stock on a 1943 No.4Mk1* Long Branch rifle...FTR'd to new (including new barrel) and what is there to snivel about ??? !!! Hell fire, that NOS butt stock could have been stuffed there by Weedon during FTR...I hardly think they worried about the color hue of wood matching on a rifle in FTR !

Next time discussion begins about a mis matched bolt is not the end of the world, will those pontificating this please include a mis correct non original butt stock is not the end of the world ???

 

[DisasterDog]

OK, you guys have given me a lot to consider here.

First, in regards to the discoloration on the butt socket. The color difference is due to remnants of paint or suncorite around the edges. You are seeing the bluing underneath.

Second, yes, I am rather certain both cracks are just the same crack running all the way through. I'll bet beer on it. If using threaded rod, it would need two separate rows...... which, yes, will make it look...... odd.

Third, still haven't disassembled it yet but I will update this thread as I do so. Hopefully can get to it today. I'm just taking it easy, I'm in no rush to fix it, and can dedicate time to contemplation.

 

[SDigger]

OK, you guys have given me a lot to consider here.

First, in regards to the discoloration on the butt socket. The color difference is due to remnants of paint or suncorite around the edges. You are seeing the bluing underneath.
Second, yes, I am rather certain both cracks are just the same crack running all the way through. I'll bet beer on it. If using threaded rod, it would need two separate rows...... which, yes, will make it look...... odd.

Third, still haven't disassembled it yet but I will update this thread as I do so. Hopefully can get to it today. I'm just taking it easy, I'm in no rush to fix it, and can dedicate time to contemplation.

There’ll always be the duct-tape option.
😬😜👍

 

[SDigger]

Oh no, I haven't touched it. I think I'll disassemble it tomorrow.

Always like the ***** walnut color.👍🍻
dark-y.
That figure’s😬😉