Gunboards Forums banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Looking for some experienced eyes to check out my family of Enfields. I’ve described each one with the details I think will help. I guess what I’m looking for are your comments on the originality of each one. I know with enfields they seem to have a tendency to visit the armory for upgrades, and new serial numbers added.

Top to bottom:

A. Probably a standard Jungle Carbine, Stamped No 5 MKIROF (F), on the left side along with ENGLAND stamped into the wrist. Has BNP stamps on top of the receiver and top of barrel with crowns. No import marks. No cartouches on the stock.

B. 22 cal. Stamped G.R. 1918, Sht L.E III * on right side of wrist. Serial # AM 1101 stamped into bolt handle, top of receiver and the knob at the end of the barrel. Has import mark. M 2576 stamped on underside of rear sight. Looks like PARKER-HALE BRIMINGHAM stamped on top of receiver under wood guard. Also under wood guard is a bunch of nonsense stamps. One number is crossed out. This has an old tarnished blank stock disc.

C. 1942 No4 Mk* and US Property on left side of receiver. Left side of wrist is the serial number and either a large squared S or possibly a 5, and 1942. Looks like a grey colored metal butt plate, No stock disc, no cartouches.

D. GR under crown, Enfield 1912, Sht LE III stamped into right side of wrist. Serial number 7321 stamped into receiver, barrel, back of bolt handle, underside of rear sight, and knob at muzzle. Some cartouches behind trigger guard. Has volley sights. Stock disc- 4.13, 1713, SK. See picture.

E. My very first Enfield Purchase in 2011.

Enfield under crown 1905 Sht L.E. I *** into right side of wrist. Serial number 8948K stamped into receiver, barrel, back of bolt handle, underside of rear sight and knob at muzzle at underside of stock behind the rack swivel. The rear sight does have another number 10215 that has a line through it. The rear sight has bone inserts, and volley sights. Looks like a serial number behind trigger guard stamped into wood that has been crossed out. Looks like an original stock disc as well. See picture.

Wood Fireworks Metal Natural material Composite material
Wood Fireworks Metal Natural material Composite material
Surface lure Metal Leather Fashion accessory Recreation
Air gun Wood Tool Trigger Gun barrel
Brown Wood Textile Rectangle Material property
Wood Font Metal Hardwood Rectangle
Bicycle Bicycle part Wood Bicycle frame Bicycle tire
Wood Air gun Shotgun Trigger Metal
Revolver Handgun holster Wood Personal protective equipment Gun accessory
Brown Air gun Gun barrel Trigger Gun accessory
 

· Registered
Joined
·
555 Posts
Well, they all look righteous to me. A very nice collection.
B is a Parker Hale Birmingham .22 conversion, but I'm intrigued by the stampings on the wrist - a very different font and crown to the 1912 example. I wonder if these were applied by Parker Hale?
Before the experts arrive here, you should quickly turn your slings around the other way so the flat buckle is on the inside :)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
14,017 Posts
A.) If it has Birmingham Nitro Proofs, it has been exported regardless of “no import mark”. More pics could determine proof date & therefore proof requirements at that time.

B.) AM-serial prefix indicates Air Ministry contract. “Peddled Scheme” rifle, either SSA or NRF on the Left side of the bolt track.

C.) Squared “S” for Savage, ZAMAK buttplate.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Well, they all look righteous to me. A very nice collection.
B is a Parker Hale Birmingham .22 conversion, but I'm intrigued by the stampings on the wrist - a very different font and crown to the 1912 example. I wonder if these were applied by Parker Hale?
Before the experts arrive here, you should quickly turn your slings around the other way so the flat buckle is on the inside :)
Thank you, Very helpful info. I’ll have to fix the slings. I just remembered one of the stocks has a serial
Number that match’s the receiver. Ill
Have to check again tomorrow and edit my post.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
A.) If it has Birmingham Nitro Proofs, it has been exported regardless of “no import mark”. More pics could determine proof date & therefore proof requirements at that time.

B.) AM-serial prefix indicates Air Ministry contract. “Peddled Scheme” rifle, either SSA or NRF on the Left side of the bolt track.

C.) Squared “S” for Savage, ZAMAK buttplate.
I’ll check “A” for more proofs and provide pics. And I’ll check “B”. Thank you much, this is all interesting to me.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
5,493 Posts
A. Probably a standard Jungle Carbine, Stamped No 5 MKIROF (F), on the left side along with ENGLAND stamped into the wrist. Has BNP stamps on top of the receiver and top of barrel with crowns. No import marks. No cartouches on the stock.

'ENGLAND' is a US import marking (pre 1968) and is NOT a UK export marking.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
8,424 Posts
The confusion over ENGLAND being import or export marking stems from where the markings we’re actually applied.
Some were reported to have been done in the UK immediately prior to shipping to comply with US law. The only reason it’s there is US compliance for US importation. Therefore it’s an import mark.

Do you know who-where-when all of the post-1986 markings were applied?
Out on the docks? In the importers parking lot? In a leased bonded warehouse? Perhaps the containers were opened and the ship’s crew had something to do in their spare time during the voyage? Perhaps the gun fairies tapped their wands on them during the night? :ROFLMAO:

It’s an import mark. Accept that and life gets a little more rosey.;)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
5,493 Posts
The confusion over ENGLAND being import or export marking stems from where the markings we’re actually applied.
Some were reported to have been done in the UK immediately prior to shipping to comply with US law. The only reason it’s there is US compliance for US importation. Therefore it’s an import mark.

Do you know who-where-when all of the post-1986 markings were applied?
Out on the docks? In the importers parking lot? In a leased bonded warehouse? Perhaps the containers were opened and the ship’s crew had something to do in their spare time during the voyage? Perhaps the gun fairies tapped their wands on them during the night? :ROFLMAO:

It’s an import mark. Accept that and life gets a little more rosey.;)
Maybe it would be better (more accurate) to say :

"The ENGLAND marking is a pre 1968 US requirement to satisfy the legally required "country of origin" marking (before it can be imported into the USA)"

As far as I know,

1) some of the US buyers / Importers of large shipments arranged for a building to be hired and staff employed in UK bonded stores (ie outside of UK "territory") to mark them up, remove the bolts and ship them seperately to the US.

2) others arranged for the markings to be applied on arrival 'on US soil' but before being brought thru' customs (ie in bonded warehouses)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
8,424 Posts
Maybe it would be better (more accurate) to say :

"The ENGLAND marking is a pre 1968 US requirement to satisfy the legally required "country of origin" marking (before it can be imported into the USA)"

As far as I know,

1) some of the US buyers / Importers of large shipments arranged for a building to be hired and staff employed in UK bonded stores (ie outside of UK "territory") to mark them up, remove the bolts and ship them seperately to the US.

2) others arranged for the markings to be applied on arrival 'on US soil' but before being brought thru' customs (ie in bonded warehouses)
That’s what I was led to believe as well.
But…I know those heathen gun fairies are masters of deception.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
As for da disc reading possibility after checking a couple of me charts; 🤔🧐
We are left with a hopeful winner;

The Suffolk Regiment.
I was just now taking more pictures of the discs, because I had forgotten to post one. Here are the only two discs that have any stampings. Top one is on the 1912, and bottom is on the 1905. WHAT DID I WIN! 😁
Brown Wood Motor vehicle Gas Font
 

· Registered
Joined
·
6,298 Posts
I was just now taking more pictures of the discs, because I had forgotten to post one. Here are the only two discs that have any stampings. Top one is on the 1912, and bottom is on the 1905. WHAT DID I WIN! 😁 View attachment 4065394
A pat on the back & congratulations on a nice collection of girls! 😉👍
Got stumped at the wicket on the (AN REE) unfortunately 🤢.
Cheer’s.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top