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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all-
This is my first post on this forum, and it's a doozy. Here goes: Basically, some years ago I picked up this K98 at a gun show. I saw lots of German markings and got excited. After doing some research on this forum, I think I may have a "restored" sporterized gun, but it's all wrong. I've been meaning to ask the experts here for help because it's been driving me nuts.

This is my problem: The receiver is dated 1941. The stock is late-war (right?). Besides that, what is wrong with the gun, and how can I best restore it to period-correctness? Details:

Receiver and barrel: CE 41, s/n 9937 (WaA 211), eagles intact. Small sunburst on side. No import marks anywhere I can see.
Rear sight: Base matches receiver (9937) but sight leaf itself is 7656 (WaA63).
Floorplate: Matches receiver (9937). The rifle did not have capture screws when I bought it. As you can see, some idiot broke the threads off in the hole on one, so I could only replace the other!
Bolt: All pieces match s/n 2167. Not matching to the rifle but matches itself. (WaA 26).
Stock: My research tells me this is a semi-kriegs stock. Marked with an "L" and several eagles. (WaA 63). No serial number or marking under the top handguard. Cupped buttplate with ugly-looking mistreated screws.
Barrel bands: Rear band is s/n 79-something and the front is unmarked and looks like a replacement with a different finish. I can't tell if the barrel band spring is original or not...Not sure about bayo lug.

Finally, I added the front sight hood and cleaning rod. Allegedly original, but I can't tell.

As long as you haven't lost patience with a newbie, my questions are:
-Is is easier to find an early-war stock and barrel bands and keep my barreled action?
-Or is it easier to find a late-war action and keep the stock?
-Assuming I keep the action, would the bolt assembly and other parts be "period correct" for a 1941 gun?


If you need better pics, let me know. And thanks so much for the help. This has seriously been bugging me for years!!!

-Matt
 

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Well, right off the bat, I think someone messed with that stock...I believe those acceptance stamps on the right side of the butt are fake...someone got stamp happy.

Its basically a mishmash...as to your question, why not keep both?

Find an earlier stock for the gun, and maybe find a sportered action for the stock, then you'll have two.
 

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Well, right off the bat, I think someone messed with that stock...I believe those acceptance stamps on the right side of the butt are fake...someone got stamp happy.

Its basically a mishmash...as to your question, why not keep both?

Find an earlier stock for the gun, and maybe find a sportered action for the stock, then you'll have two.
Yes those stamps on the stock are fake.
 

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No question about the stock, looks really fake from a distance.

What's the deal with the E/211 proof on the right side of the receiver with the asterisk? Haven't seen that on a 41 Sauer. From what I understand there was no waffenampt 211 nazi style stick eagles marked on receivers. The 211's were waffenampts with the Weimar style stick eagles.

Unless the 211 is actually a 214 that I'm not seeing well. The asterisk would indicate a factory rejected receiver from what I understand. A 214 proof would indicate that its a Berlin lubecker receiver that was rejected and eventually sent to Sauer in 41 and assembled into a complete rifle. Possible? Am I completely wrong here? Or is this thing a hump job?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Wow I wasn't expecting fake stock markings...The dealer told me that this was Hermann Goring and his brother Billy's favorite hunting rifle! He lied to me!

Seriously though...Yeah that's a WaA211 on the right side receiver, just below a E/37. So is the stock even a real one? Does the E/211 mean my receiver's messed up too?

Is there any way to redeem this gun, or was my first trip into Mauser Town an enormous failure? Thanks again for the help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well, right off the bat, I think someone messed with that stock...I believe those acceptance stamps on the right side of the butt are fake...someone got stamp happy.

Its basically a mishmash...as to your question, why not keep both?

Find an earlier stock for the gun, and maybe find a sportered action for the stock, then you'll have two.
Thanks for the info. Yeah, I wouldn't mind finding an earlier stock, but I'm not even sure where to look. I feel like I'll need to do more research and not tempt getting ripped off again by buying on an online auction site...
 

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Wow I wasn't expecting fake stock markings...The dealer told me that this was Hermann Goring and his brother Billy's favorite hunting rifle! He lied to me!

Seriously though...Yeah that's a WaA211 on the right side receiver, just below a E/37. So is the stock even a real one? Does the E/211 mean my receiver's messed up too?

Is there any way to redeem this gun, or was my first trip into Mauser Town an enormous failure? Thanks again for the help.
Jp Sauer never manufactured their own receivers since they were more of an assembler of 98ks vs. manufacturer of them. They usually received receivers from walther (359) or Erma (280). I have an AR 43 receiver that was finished by Sauer but right side inspection proof is still 280. Later in 44, Sauer also built k98ks out of BCD marked receivers. I'm pretty familiar with Sauer, and I never encountered a 211 right side proof on a ce41. Especially not this late and in nazi stick eagle form. We need mrfarb to take a look at this.
 

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E/211 was used by Mauser Obendorf very early and then Mauser Borsigwalde. The asterik is usally an indication the part failed inspection. The WaA above the asterik probably indicates the inspection at MB after the issue was fixed. It was later routed to Sauer for assembly.
 

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E/211 was used by Mauser Obendorf very early and then Mauser Borsigwalde. The asterik is usally an indication the part failed inspection. The WaA above the asterik probably indicates the inspection at MB after the issue was fixed. It was later routed to Sauer for assembly.
That's what I was getting at in post #4, but RyanE... But werent both MO and MB E/211 proofs with Weimar style stick eagles? It's clear that on this CE41, the 211 is under a nazi style stick eagle. Sauer is an oddball assembler and I wouldn't be surprised. If this is legit, then it's a cool sauer assembled receiver variation.
 

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That's what I was getting at in post #4, but RyanE... But werent both MO and MB E/211 proofs with Weimar style stick eagles? It's clear that on this CE41, the 211 is under a nazi style stick eagle. Sauer is an oddball assembler and I wouldn't be surprised. If this is legit, then it's a cool sauer assembled receiver variation.
I have seen both the smaller Nazi-style eagles and the larger eagles with WaA211.
 

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Stock: it's a post-war Czech stock that someone decided to add INCORRECT stamps to. With the absence of the takedown disc and the presence of teh bayonet lug, it is almost certainly Post-war Czech (only WW2 manufacturer to make stocks with these combination of features was bcd, and this is NOT a bcd stock set) . And by the time the takedown disc was omitted, there were at BEST only a single inspection stamps on the stock and most assuredly NOT a Wehrmacht branch indicator (in your case, L for Luftwaffe). So, yes, a big FAKE on the stock set, and not even WW2.

Can't comment on the hood and cleaning rod much, as you don't show close ups. I will say that the hood LOOKS a little shiney to me.

Find an earlier Sauer stock. There are (or were, last time I looked), 2 Sauer early sets available at the usual suspect online places right now. Be prepared to go anything up to $250 or more these days for a decent stock set!



 

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Lewis....didn't MO also use this style semi-kriegs?

The other giveaway is I don't think you'd find a Gustloff or MO semi-kriegs like this that was solid walnut...

Too bad someone had to embellish it regardless...
 

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Lewis....didn't MO also use this style semi-kriegs?

The other giveaway is I don't think you'd find a Gustloff or MO semi-kriegs like this that was solid walnut...

Too bad someone had to embellish it regardless...
Definately not Gustloff walnut, but MO did use some very scarce "semi kriegs variant" (no bolt takedown but bayo lug) walnut stocks even in late byf45 production.

I agree with you guys that this stock is humped, with most likely a walnut post war Czech stock as the base. Some Post war Czech Walnut stocks were drilled for and had the stock nut to accept cleaning rods.
 

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To answer some of the OP's questions...

The barreled action would normally be considered a bolt mismatch action but you also have some non matching sight components which did not leave the Sauer factory like that. So its a "mostly" matching barreled receiver with matching triggerguard assembly and with a non matching but matching to itself bolt.

You need to find a JP Sauer 40-41 production stock for it. Cupped buttplate. Sauer stocks are fairly easy to identify because they have a unique to others, small style bolt takedown disc in the buttstock.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Okay so the stock needs to go. I'm on the fence about whether I should fix it up or not... That also explains why my German K98 bayonet won't fit on there!!! Thanks so much for all of your help. You guys literally answered 3 years worth of questions and doubts overnight!

So far, based on what you all have told me, I understand that I'm looking for an early Sauer cupped buttplate stock. It should be marked WaA 37, right?

I came across www.k98stocks.com. Are they legit? There seems to be a good assortment of sight hoods and matching stocks, and a couple nice-looking E/37 ones that would work. This one (http://83.160.77.117/k98stocks/stocks/laminated/004.htm) looks like it might fit the bill, right? Does anyone have experience with these folks?
 

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Yes, k98kstocks.com is legit. Mario is the name of the guy that runs the show. They are second best IMO to original German stocks. These are off of norweigian rework k98ks. Norweigian reworks are k98ks that were left behind or surrendered by Germany in Norway. The norweigians refurbed the rifles but unlike other countries kept the rifle's original parts together (besides the barrel, 30-06 upgrade). The stocks were lightly sanded if that and a norweigian varnish was applied to protect the wood. They usually (95% of the time) come with matching to the stock hardware (bands, band spring, Handguard). Mario is a great guy to deal with, I have NEVER been disappointed in over 10 separate stock purchases. He ships from Holland. Shipment usually take a few weeks. Biggest problem sometimes is getting into contact with him because he is busy with other stuff. These stocks are the gold standard for "restorations".

For your CE 41 action, the "correct" stock will have 3 E/37 proofs on the right side of the buttstock and an "H" style milled band. The one you linked is okay (doesnt have clear buttsrock proofs) but im sure Mario has something better. Just tell him you need a cupped, 3 times E/37 stock for a ce41 and he should be able to help you out. Last time I talked to him, supplies were running out so I hope he has something for you.

In regards to what you should do with this situation, it's your call. You have a "mostly" matching barreled receiver with matching triggerguard assembly. If the bolt was matching to the action that would up the value, but alas, thats not the case. You will definately invest more into it than it will be worth in the end. The stock set will run you around $250 average price, plus whatever you have in the rifle already. I have quite a few restos and Im sure I will never get my money back for them if I ever decide to sell and most of mine are mint bore all matching barreled actions with matching bolt and matching T-guard assembly. I enjoy them though, but thats me. If investing more than its worth doesn't bother you than restore it, but remember it will never be fully restored to its original German factory configuration.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Okay thanks for all the help. I need to give this all some thought. A person could spend a lifetime going through all the information found on this forum! Collecting anything from Nazi Germany is rife with so many dangers these days. I think that most people who post here see the inherent value in collecting and preserving history. It's a shame that so many dealers and shady salesmen don't feel the same way. I'm trying not to let them ruin it for me!

That said, does anyone need a post-war Czech stock with fake German markings? ;) Might be nice to sand down for another project!

Thanks again to everyone for all of their help here! You guys are awesome!
 
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