[JPS]

Hello Gents,

Those of you who might know me from my WWI Forum, the Mauser Forum or the Mannlicher Forum, already are aware of the fact that I am a serious collector of all the weapons used by all of the combatant Nations that participated in WWI. However, like a lot of us who collect based on specific historical periods, when we drift outside our areas of expertise we require assistance. This is one of those occasions. My knowledge of the Kar 98k is very general and quite limited, which is why I a m posting these photos for a friend.

Let’s start from the beginning. My friend is NOT really a collector and did not consult me prior to purchasing this rifle or I would have recommended other options to him. It’s a Mitchell’s Mauser. Those of us who have been in this hobby for many, many years are well aware of Mitchell’s and the controversy surrounding the rifles that they sell. Since this is not a new topic of discussion, I would like anyone who is kind enough to help, please spare me the traditional bashing of Mitchell’s!

All I am trying to accomplish is to help a friend with information regarding the particular rifle he has received. Nothing more than that. I would please like to ask you experts what if anything you can tell me about this rifle from the photos provided? The manufacturer based on the code, any of the markings present, etc. I have asked for a full length photo of the rifle as well as a shot of the rear sight base and leaf. Thank you for your help in advance.

Warmest regards,

John

JPS

 

[boltactionsforever]

Well here goes....

the serial number on the barrel was applied by MM as well as the 6 pointed star above the serial number. All the bolt numbers are a MM recreation, ground and restamped to match the original receiver serial number--plus the polished bolt is not by any means original--it was polished by MM. The pictures dont show the band numbers but I am sure there a MM recreation--ground and restamped.

These guns are great for a reinactor, but have a very limited following in the collecting world.

BAF

 

[Hambone]

What BAF said. No idea why they polish the bolts like that. I think we've said it all re MM so no need to pile on.

 

[DadM1903]

dou = manufactured by Waffenwerke Bruenn, Bystrica Czechoslovakia

44 = 1944 year of manufacture


original serial number = 4077 "j" block

D.

 

[JPS]

Well here goes....

the serial number on the barrel was applied by MM as well as the 6 pointed star above the serial number. All the bolt numbers are a MM recreation, ground and restamped to match the original receiver serial number--plus the polished bolt is not by any means original--it was polished by MM. The pictures dont show the band numbers but I am sure there a MM recreation--ground and restamped.

These guns are great for a reinactor, but have a very limited following in the collecting world.

BAF

"Let’s start from the beginning. My friend is NOT really a collector and did not consult me prior to purchasing this rifle or I would have recommended other options to him. It’s a Mitchell’s Mauser. Those of us who have been in this hobby for many, many years are well aware of Mitchell’s and the controversy surrounding the rifles that they sell. Since this is not a new topic of discussion, I would like anyone who is kind enough to help, please spare me the traditional bashing of Mitchell’s!"

Comments noted,,,,,,It's forced matched.

 

[JPS]

dou = manufactured by Waffenwerke Bruenn, Bystrica Czechoslovakia

44 = 1944 year of manufacture


original serial number = 4077 "j" block

D.

Thank you DadM1903,

So the code is from a Czech arsenal. Thank you! You input is greatly appreciated.

Any idea regarding the "X" stamp on the barrel that appears to be over struck or is this a MM addition?

Warmest regards,

John

 

[mosinbuckeye]

Thank you DadM1903,

So the code is from a Czech arsenal. Thank you! You input is greatly appreciated.

Any idea regarding the "X" stamp on the barrel that appears to be over struck or is this a MM addition?

Warmest regards,

John

The 'X' stamp is a Russian Capture mark, but honestly I'm not sure what is meant by it specifically. MM put a line through it to make it look like a star, probably to try and hide the fact that it's a Russian capture rifle from someone who may otherwise be aware of the Russian markings.

 

[CCubed]

That "x" is supposed to be crossed rifles - at least, that's what I've always known/understood. Not sure if it had any particular meaning to the Soviets; but one thing is certain: there are many Russian capture K98ks without this marking on them. So, there's an even bigger mystery, IMHO (i.e., why did some rifles get the "x" and not others? Just sloppy work? [Most likely...])

Actually gotta disagree with BAF: I don't think that Mitchell's Mausers are good for reenactors. Just spreads the fabrication that these rifles represent the original configuration of the K98k rifles, IMHO. But, I digress...

 

[Vulch]

Forced Matched is a BAD analogy John - more FAKED than anything - the only original to manufacture serials are those on the barrel and action, the rest are applied by Mitchells in California or wherever they are.

No original K98 has a polished bolt. Original K98's have BLUED bolts. When Mitchells had a Facebook page, there was a serious discussion on the polished bolts, to wit Don Mitchell asserted original bolts are in the white (because ALL he had ever seen were Yugoslav Mausers, and because some of the original pimped K98's were done in Yugoslavia for them - perhaps ALL of them are?)

Shooter at best. Reenactor- maybe, just for POOR appearances. Collector - not at all.

 

[tuco In Memoriam]

I agree with Vultch, as forced matched points more to some sort of military renumbering which is not the case here. These were matched to pass as matching.

Re-enactors : I have seen these in use by some of the German guys then again I once saw a German "Herr" carrying an Enfield at an event near Nashville. Stating that the Cedars Of Lebanon events were never big on accuracy.

MM's are what they are. I just hate to see new/young collectors buy these things, as in many cases they threw their money down the drain. JPS that is even worse than a good old fashioned pudding bath

 

[tuco In Memoriam]

He sent me a nasty note once about these boards or at least someone claiming to be him did. I invited him to dispute any posting but that never happened I am still not sure if it was him as the email account was from hotmail.

 

[solman]

ok now which serial number is cobbed by mitchells? the one on the recevier or the one on the barrel. you see i thought the j block started on the barrel but i have #59j on the receiver.

 

[boltactionsforever]

Forced Matched is a BAD analogy John - more FAKED than anything - the only original to manufacture serials are those on the barrel and action, the rest are applied by Mitchells in California or wherever they are.

No original K98 has a polished bolt. Original K98's have BLUED bolts. When Mitchells had a Facebook page, there was a serious discussion on the polished bolts, to wit Don Mitchell asserted original bolts are in the white (because ALL he had ever seen were Yugoslav Mausers, and because some of the original pimped K98's were done in Yugoslavia for them - perhaps ALL of them are?)

Shooter at best. Reenactor- maybe, just for POOR appearances. Collector - not at all.

I'm with Vulch on this one...forced matched is a way to "sugar coat" the obvious.....

It's made to deceive, not simply to "keep your parts" on the right gun....deception is a premium at the MM house.

My bets are your friend would have not purchased the rifle had it shown a bunch of mismatched parts...hence, another individual deceived by MM.

BAF

 

[armenjs]

Have seen their advertising!!! it's getting smaller, also seems like they are getting low in inventory on stocks to FM.

 

[rcmauser]

JPS,

From the current set of pictures, the finish looks good for an RC... The rifle should be a good shooter or mitchell's will fix it. The stock has been sanded to highlight the laminated stock. Tell him to have fun with it. I cannot tell from the pictures but the floor plate and trigger guard will be ground, reblued and restamped to match the receiver serial. I do not believe mitchell's mausers remarks the barrel bands as part of their rework process on all of their grades of rifles. They may on their so called 'collectors grade", but not on all. The bolt was reworked in California and made to match.

I don't know where your friend got the "pyy" marked bayonet. But it is a 1944-45 made bayonet. The ones I have seen have the year in front of the pyy. The pictures are not clear to see that.

Bayonet was made by Berg&Co, Solingen-Ohligs, North Rhine-Westphalia
They made bayonets from 1934-45

Codes used:
S/242 - 1934-37
Berg&Co - 1937-40
agv - 1940-44
pyy - 1944-45


k98 Bayonet database
http://k98.free.fr/

 

[tuco In Memoriam]

Good info on the blade

 

[JPS]

Hello Gents,

Thank you one and ALL regarding the information you have provided. Per my original post, despite being a WWI Collector, MM is infamous enough that even I am fully aware of their practices! I was looking for the core information which you Gents have been kind enough to provide, i.e. manufacturer of both the bayonet and rifle per the German mfg. codes. I know that the MM are "humped" and I happy to report to the best of my knowledge that they haven't screwed up any WWI vintage Mausers!......YET????

Warmest regards,

John

 

[PrayingMantis]

I know that the MM are "humped" and I happy to report to the best of my knowledge that they haven't screwed up any WWI vintage Mausers!......YET????

Hopefully all the Turkish Gew 98s dry up before the RC K98ks, otherwise we might have a whole new problem.

 

[the4thhorseman]

the X capture mark is supposed to be two crossed M 91/30 rifles

 

[PK 637]

If a MM ever fell into my hands, first thing I would do is to get the bolt blued, it just looks wrong with the shiny bolt. Plus I'd be ashamed to take it to the range with like that, someone might think I actually believe in Don Mitchell's "authenticity."