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Not sure what's going on there. IMHO the 6.5 is very easy to load for. It was actually it and the 30/40 Krag that got me into hand loading, as both are calibers I wanted to shoot a lot and for cheap. Its straight forward loading, I'd suggest checking your powders, stick to proven recipes and maybe give up using that old powder if its unknown data and filling the case up too much. IMR's work extremely well for me in this caliber. Good luck!
 
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30.5 grains IMR-3031 under a 140 grain bullet is the ticket, for a near Japanese Military load duplication.
I try my best to reload to original milspec and use a similar load set. My issue is finding a spitzer (.264, 140gr, flat base) bullet that is NOT a soft point. I’ve had more than one soft nose get boogered up when chambering a round. If loading isn’t smooth, I’ll pull the bullet and some times find the tip bent. If I don’t catch it, I assume those rounds are the “fliers” that go off target.

Does anyone have a source of 139-140 grain, .264 flat base bullets that are NOT soft points??

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Thanks yea i think the powder being filled too high had something to dowith it. Or cuz those ppu bullets kinda suck. Ive shot most of the rifles i got recently. They all shoot pretty well but that 8x56 carbine i just got with the ppu bullets i saw they were tumbling a lil bit. Im sure if i had some good round nose bullets in 330 diameter theyd work fine. I have a mosin that tumbles with spitzer bullets but round nose work fine. Im really happy cuz that berthier i got from rti was really rusty but it has a verynice bore. And shooting it got all that rust out of the bore. I even wrapped my bronze brush in big frontier metal wool to clean it even more
 

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Too Much and Too Wrong Powder!!!
The 6,5 X50SR T38, was developed at an early stage of Nitro Powder Development.
Before WWI, most Rifle Powders were Fast, Hot and Erosive. By WWI, Powders had developed to " cooler", and slower Burning, more adapted to Rifle use.
Replacing the early ",Type B" powder, by the newer " "Type S" before the 1920s, this was a Powder similar to Dupont's later IMR 3031.
Long use over 40 years in Handloading by myself ( from 1967, first T38 Carbine, and using #3031, gave proper Velocities, accuracy, and recoil with 139gn Flat Base ( == original T38 Bullet).
Powder density at 30-32 grains fills case to bullet Base without crushing ( important).
Any slower powder, such as 4831, which requires heavier loads, is a bomb waiting to happen. The T38 is a very strong sction, but nothing can defeat Stupid.
The only other powder good for 6,5 Arisaka is IMR 4895, or its equivalent, Hodgdon 4895 ( Aussie AR2206H), again 30-32 grains, Max 34.
Good safe Load, PPU cases ( Norma are incorrect SAAMI undersized. Remember Japanese chambers are " relieved" to facilitate Chambering AND Extraction in Battle Conditions ( Mud, Blood and Beer).
Doc AV
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B powder was a flat stick powder and S powder was a flat flake powder.
I only use IMR 4831 or H 4831 to simulate the GUNSO reduced load using 140 gr. bullets, it works well for this particular load only, pushing it to 2500 FPS just was not feasible or accurate at all, it actually lost velocity during my testing. As DocAV said it is a slower type powder.

Patrick
 
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I try my best to reload to original milspec and use a similar load set. My issue is finding a spitzer (.264, 140gr, flat base) bullet that is NOT a soft point. I’ve had more than one soft nose get boogered up when chambering a round. If loading isn’t smooth, I’ll pull the bullet and some times find the tip bent. If I don’t catch it, I assume those rounds are the “fliers” that go off target.

Does anyone have a source of 139-140 grain, .264 flat base bullets that are NOT soft points??

Thanks!
Don’t worry about slight damage to the tips of those soft points. Many tests have shown little accuracy degradation from tip damage. I don’t think a Jap milsurp could notice the damage on target. The base of a bullet however is sacred. Damage/flaws there is fatal to your grouping!

the Speer 140gr Grand Slam has a point that shouldn’t deform.

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
For a 120 grain bullets would 33-35 grains of imr 3031 be a full charge? I got some loaded but im not gonna shoot for awhile so im just wondering if i should load the rest of the box with 33 grains or maybe 34,35?
 

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For a 120 grain bullets would 33-35 grains of imr 3031 be a full charge? I got some loaded but im not gonna shoot for awhile so im just wondering if i should load the rest of the box with 33 grains or maybe 34,35?
Do you have any reloading manuals with data on the 6.5 Japanese cartridge or are you just “winging it”? Earlier in this thread is a picture of Hornady data and 33 grains of 3031 would be OVER THE MAX load for that bullet!

Trial and error is no way to reload. It is a science. Books / reading / understanding …is the way to go. You will have far fewer questions and much better results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
I have like 5 books none of them give any data on 6.5 jap. 33 grains was for a 140 grain bullet tho. Since my bullet is lighter i would need to use more powder. I still dont really understand y it isnt the opposite lol. The lee die data doesnt say anything about 3031. But i have another thing i found online wen i was doing research ill post a pic of it.
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Discussion Starter · #30 · (Edited)
I was just loading up some. I still have 25+cases i can load. These have 35 grains imr 3031. One has 33 grains. Another left over from testing has 36 grains H4831 which i dont like because the bullets dont seat unless i use the min load. Any more and the bullet wont seat and get crimped and will even get stuck in the die! And i have to unstrew it and jar it to get it to fall out
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I put all my ammo/cases in either 308 or 30-06 boxes from midway. Theyre cheap and work well. I dont like plastic ones cuz they take up so much more space.
 

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Note that your 35 grain load of 3031 is the MAX load for your data and exceeds the Hornady MAX load.
Not a good place to start. Patrick gets mil spec velocity on a 140 gr bullet with considerably less 3031 in this thread ..I shoot with him and he is a very experienced reloader.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 · (Edited)
Yea thats y im kinda not sure. Most ppl are shooting 140 grain bullets. But u should need more powder for a slighlty lighter bullet. If the one with 33 grains is close enough to the velocity im looking for ill take the others apart. Its a16% lighter bullet so i was thinking 10% more powder but again im not sure
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
So if 31.5 grains is a good power for 140 grain bullets. A lil bit more powder should be good for a 120 bullet not sure exactly how much more tho. That data i posted i forgot where i got that but it says 31-35. I could just shoot some of em but i dont have much ammo and i just shot it a bunch. I also have a ton of cast bullets and stuff i need to try. Kinda running low on funds cleaning supplys reloading comps
 

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going from 31.5 to 36 grans is a really big jump. Even the data you posted says 31 gr starting load. Are you sure you are not somehow confusing the data between 3031 and 4064? This is getting really close to being FUBAR.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Its 35 grains of powder. That is for a 140 grain bullet tho. No its no fubar lol. The data that is available says to use 2 grains more than u would if u were loading 140 grain bullets. I think the original 33 grains would be better but i never had any intention of shooting the 35 grain loads untill i tried the 33 grain loads first. Theyres only 18 of em
 

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Its 35 grains of powder. That is for a 140 grain bullet tho. No its no fubar lol.
35 grains is also THE MAX load in your data listing, and OVER THE MAX load in another!
It’s a dumb place to start with a new rifle and cartridge for sure. Shoot some 31-33 grain loads first.
 

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Don‘t know where you got the data table you showed, but you should cross reference it with some others. if you look at data from Hodgdon, their max load for H335 and H380 is 37 and 41 respectively. Your data table shows 38 and 43 (all for 120 gr bullets). I would trust the specific powder manufacturer’s data. It might make you question the max data for the other powders in that table. Just food for thought.

Found your data table - it is a direct copy from a Lyman manual, 45th edition, from 1970. Pretty old. It does have hotter max loads than typical data now (from my experience), so be cautious. But also see that it shows their most accurate load was with 4064 at 2358 FPS. That would make me look at the starting load with 3031 (31 gr @2358 FPS). It would be where I would start anyway.

Most Japanese guns in 6.5 have very generous chambers. A lot of folks only get 2-3 reloads out of brass, especially if it is anything but neck sized. If you are repeatedly pushing max loads, you might be asking for a head failure. Arisakas are strong guns, but hot gas is no fun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
35 grains is also THE MAX load in your data listing, and OVER THE MAX load in another!
It’s a dumb place to start with a new rifle and cartridge for sure. Shoot some 31-33 grain loads first.
Yea i just made em all 33 grains. I figured 35 would be a lil hot. If i had more data to go on itd be nice. It would take a lot of guesswork out.
 

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Back in the late 60s, with my first T38 Carbine ( and Second Milsurp after M1 Carbine) I used Norma cases , Norma 139gn Projectiles, and starting load of 30gn IMR 3031. Worked well, and gradually increased to 32gn.
Also tried IMR 4895 , similar results.
Problem: Cases bulged in oversized chambers plus undersized Norma cases.
Tried turning down rims of DI 43
( Canadian) Boxer cases, formed cases had a slightly bigger head, so fitted chamber better, no bulging. And cheaper than buying Norma 6,5J Ammo or empty Brass. For my companion
T99 Late Production ( acquired same time as T38, 1967), I went straight to reformed Israeli 1955 7,9 Boxer cases; still got them, after 20 reload cycles with 174gn
.303 Mark VIIs.

So, getting back to the 6,5 J,
Heavy loads won't damage the Rifle ( strong as the Hobs of Hell), but the case may blow, with bad results from Gas Release in
One's Face, especially Eyes ( Safety Glasses ( wrap-around) essential in Reloader Shooting.
Mild loads are more fun!

Doc AV
Mod. Reloader Forum.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Thanks for the info that is really interesting. I just bought sum more brass actually. I would like to have more than 2 boxes. Grafs has everything but carcano and .303 which sucks cuz i only have 20 303 rounds. But I was able to get more 6.5 jap, 8mm lebel, 8mm mauser, and 54r so that is good. Powder valley just had some carcano but theyre sold out now unfortunately.
 
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